Just how do you get a three year old to go to bed?

[Ohbedhowimissyou]

Just that really. Please tell me there is a magic formula that makes even the most stubborn strong-willed of three-year-olds, go the f@*k to sleep.

We have two kids, I'm breast feeding the eight-month old who wants milk in the evening and doesn't take a bottle, which means my partner inevitably does the bedtime routine with the three-year-old. (I'm going to start pumping again so we can give it another go).

We are at the end of our tether (especially my poor DP). Tonight the routine started at 6.30pm and it's still ongoing, so that's three hours already.

We have tried everything, the Super Nanny marching back to bed without saying a word approach, now and next boards, co-sleeping, going to bed earlier, going to bed later, now we just don't know what to do.

I'm going to do them for the next week, to see if that helps establish a new routine but what, in your experience should the routine be?

Like I said strong-willed is definitely a major personality trait here and generally speaking the softly-softly approach doesn't work.

You repeat 'this too shall pass* ad infinitum until one day you are sat at home alone whilst the teenagers are out and you realise you'd swap everything to be putting a three year old to bed. Although it wasn't so long ago that you forget that had someone told you that in the midst of three year old bedtime you'd have twatted them

What time do they get up? A 3 year old needs between 10 to 13 hours sleep a night. And they are like dogs they need running 3 times a day.
www.nhs.uk/live-well/sleep-and-tiredness/how-much-sleep-do-kids-need/

For us what worked was lots of exercise, bath, book, lights out and even ‘night night’ story where we take a story she knows and retell it with her and her friends as characters.

We had this. We have a tonie box where grandparents read bedtime stories and the calling back and conflict has massively reduced.

A strong routine is the only thing that worked for us. Play until bath, bath at 6pm, out at 6.30pm, crap on TV until 7pm. Upstairs, three books maximum. Then downstairs.

Took three weeks of returning him to his room each time he came downstairs for him to get it. Now, a year later he's fine and able to fall asleep on the rare times he isn't asleep at the end of three books.

No wisdom to add but currently going through this with my two year old. You are not alone. Getting to bed for us lasts between 1-3 hours to get him to calm down and he can wake through the night for a party. I'm shattered and hate my life. Heeding @Ducksurprise advice that I'll look back when he's a teenager and long to put him to bed like this again. Until then...

Drop the nap if you haven't already and do quiet time instead.

Then sticker charts. They have worked amazingly with my two.

Set it up that he gets a sticker for getting in bed and staying there. Get x number of stickers and they get a treat. Usual ones for us are a train trip, an Elsa toy or merc thing, or a trip to a special place.

Works every single time.

ROUTINE ROUTINE ROUTINE.

Bedtime for my 3yo is 7.30pm, no ifs no buts.

Supper, bath, story, wee on the loo, bed, lights out. I don't hear a peep from her after that.

We've never had issues with getting out of bed or anything like that. It's also not just a miracle because I also have a 2yo who has the same routine and never any fuss at bedtime.

What's your 3yo's typical day like OP? Are they tired enough for bed in the first place?

I’m not really sure but sometimes my nearly three year old will stay in bed when I tell her that the fairies only come out in her room and dance when she’s asleep in her bed.
Sometimes it works if I say goodnight and I will come back and check on you in five minutes but only if you stay in bed very still. I go back much sooner and give her loads of praise for still being in bed then repeat the exercise then after a couple of times often find she’s fallen asleep when I go back in the room.
Complete blackout of all light.
Fan or music.
But sometimes nothing works at all.

Routine , actually being tired, and parental expectation that they will go to sleep.
Routine is self-explanatory, same thing every night, heading towards bedtime from about 5pm.
Actually being tired - fully exercised, like a puppy.
Parental expectation - firm voice and decisive actions, no mucking about...at the final goodnight , head out of the room, no waiting to see if a fuss is made.
DS1 was terrible about going to bed, DS2 & 3 were great, and I think it was because I was taking no nonsense. DS1 was indulged because I was still practising as a parent, I'd worry that he was actually crying for a reason ,that he was sad, lonely or something. He ran the show.
Once I had 2 and then 3 children to get to bed ( at different times because of their ages) it could only work if everyone went to bed when they were supposed to.
I think it came across that I meant business, so DS2 & 3 just toed the line better.

I realised we always needed two stories, so I had a consequence if the bath wind down time didn't go well then one would be dropped. Threatening no stories at all just guaranteed DD wasn't going to sleep so we upped it from one story to two. Storytime was always like a special treat, in bed, all ready. DD always chose the stories ~I could recite The Gruffalo even now~ Then we started chill out music to go to sleep to after stories and that worked for us most of the time. Just one trick to try. Good luck!

Routine I agree. I had two eighteen months apart and never had any trouble like this. Supper, bath, bed with stories and goodnight.

DS used to muck about horribly at bedtime and would be kicking off, crying, up and down like a yo-yo until I was absolutely demented with it. Super nanny routine ended in full on screaming most nights I found that pottering about next door in our bedroom worked well as he could still hear me, also iron clad routine of bath, story, short and sweet night night mummy will be next door, close door and leave him to it. It started off closer to an hour for him to actually stop messing around in his room and actually go to sleep but that has reduced and now he’s often asleep in 10-15 mins a year on. Sticker chart might help, we had a bit of success with that. Don’t engage too much, just firm and calm and do exactly what you say you’ll do ie leave the room, don’t hover about giving him a chance to fuss.

You say you’ve tried different things but have you tried then consistently?
We sat by the door with ds1 and just frogmarched hill to bed, didn’t say anything, time and time again.
I think it was about 60 times the first night
15 the second
After a week it was all sorted and he’s been great since
(I should add that none of this worked with DS2 who didn’t really get the whole go to bed thing until he was gone four)
I would def drop the nap.

You might already do/know some of this... is he tired enough? What time does he wake in the morning? Try more exercise. Scooter, balance bike, races in the garden. Less/no sugar in the evening. Definitely no nap at 3.

My twins are 3 and go to sleep in the same room quite nicely. 4 yo also trots into his room and never comes back. They're all absolutely dropping by the time they go to bed - not sure that's ideal but they close their eyes within seconds of finishing their book. If anyone has a car nap in the day... carnage.

Oh god I could've written this, down to the breastfed baby.

A gro clock and sticker chart was transformative here, turns out her motivation for a sticker is STRONG. We got lucky as a couple of her friends had sticker charts for using the toilet in nursery so she was familiar with the concept and very excited to have her own.

We had also let mornings slip later and later through lockdown, getting her back on a 7-7 schedule helped. Months later she's still needing a nap maybe twice a week, those nights she'll play for ages in bed but DH still gets out on time because of the sticker. If she's overtired it'll be a bad bedtime but still done on time because sticker.

Another thing that helps is doing a board game type activity after dinner - keeps her calm and focused rather than a hyperactive mess. We have a few orchard games sets that work well.

Hope you sort something, it's a horrible way to end a day.

I have a wonderful 'strong willed' nearly 3 year old too . We have had such a roller-coaster ride of bedtime challenges over the years! But so pleased that we're currently in a 'totally nailing bedtime' phase... And forever hopeful that this one will last. Contrary to a lot of 'be stern, march back to bed' etc advice, we've found quite the opposite has worked for us - bedtime is fun! We do things like silly 'drying machines' after bath time which get lots of giggles or putting pj bottoms on our heads when she's supposed to be getting dressed, pulling funny faces, saying 'hmm, this doesn't seem right'. She's also big into imaginery/role play at the moment too so I'll randomly be Santa or Daddy Pig or the other day she told me to be some random kid from her nursery(!?) during Bath and bedtime routine. We've always had challenges with leaving the room before she falls asleep and months ago decided to stop trying as was causing so much stress for everyone, however recently we've been able to do the 'I just need to go and do the washing up and then I'll come back to check on you very soon' tact and she's been accepting it. It could be because of any number of things she's now accepting that (as it's not the first time we've tried it!). I spent most of pregnancy with DS (now 11 weeks) dreading how we were going to survive bedtime dramas once he arrived so you've done amazingly to be suffering through this with a baby too. Not fun!! I'm feeling so lucky that we seem to have cracked things finally, wishing you lots of luck with whatever you try next!!

4 dc under aged 2-6 and other than Dc1 who was a tricky bugger at bedtime when a toddler never had this. My 2 year old and 3 year old along with the older two are asleep as soon as their head hits the pillow. If they nap, drop it, it will be tough initially but go with it. Exercise them, physically and mentally. Are they hungry? And finally a routine.

I'm having this at the moment. My husband has moved out so it's just me, my 12 year old, nearly 3 year old and 5 month old daughters. The 12 year old could help but I don't think that's fair so I only ask her when I'm absolutely desperate. Its about 50/50 whether the baby goes down during bathtime and toddlers routine goes to plan - if so she will be in bed for 7.30 and I lie with her until she falls asleep, always before 8. But if the baby (also bf) won't sleep I'm screwed - the novelty of her joining us in DD2s room causes too much merriment and every sound she makes is an excuse for DD2 to jump back up and start asking 20 questions or chatting to her. So if DD3 isn't asleep by 7.30 I usually resort to putting everyone to sleep together in my bed. Lights off, white noise on, all snuggle up together and whisper stories until everyone's asleep then creep out to clean, assuming I haven't fallen asleep myself by that point.

So not especially helpful advice but lots of sympathy- it's bloody hard to juggle with that age gap!

Superglue

Thank you all so much for the advice everyone!

So, to answer a few questions:
There's no nap to drop, napping has never been a thing for our little live wire. Not even when a newborn .

Definitely tired enough - yesterday there were trips to two different playgrounds with lots of running at parks around them too and then physical /chasing activities at home. Most of the week is spent at nursery too and so we have a very exhausted child return to us after a long day playing with friends.
The current routine is:
5.30 - snack or bigger meal depending on what has been consumed at nursery/during the day
6.00 - playing with toys or watching TV (CBeebies so it's the wind-down programmes).
6.30 - bath, brushing teeth etc
7.00 - three books in bed, kisses good night, star light thing on
7.30 - exit room
7.31-9.30ish
Toddler: patter patter patter, door open, "very important thing to tell you"/crying, "I'm not sleepy", "I want to sleep in your bed", " I'm thirsty"(drink next to bed so irrelevant), "I need a wee wee", crying.
Us: internally: 'go the f@*k to sleep!". Externally: "It's bedtime, go back to sleep" walking back to bed.

I will definitely try a sticker/reward chart - we did that with potty training and it worked so I don't know why we haven't considered that.

I think we have been pretty good at sticking to the routine but we definitely have a boundary-pusher on our hands so maybe we give in to tiny little time-extending bits which adds up to long, drawn-out routines, I will keep them in check.

I like the idea of a toney and repeating the 'this too shall pass' mantra.

I don't think there's enough super glue in the world that would work though.

Oh and I love the idea of saying I'm just popping to do something and then I will come back, I definitely think that could be worth a go.

To @ShinyGreenElephant and @Lifeandlemons I'm sorry you are going through the same thing. Hope some of the tips here help you both too.

We were using CBeebies for wind down during one of our worst bedtime routines - we thought we had noticed Night Garden calmed her down. But when we ditched it, she was immediately calmer, so now we do no TV. Wouldn't be the case for everyone I know, but just one thing to add to the list!