Table manners

[frenchtoast88]

Not sure if this actually falls under parenting since my issue is with DH but relates to how we'll teach our children.

My question: are table manners necessary? Things like using a knife and fork correctly (knife in right, fork in left), putting your knife and fork together when you're finished your meal, asking "please may I leave the table?".

One of us thinks yes they're good manners and will be teaching the children them. The other thinks not necessary and that putting your knife and fork together is an antiquated rule and signals to the servants that you're finished. We do not have servants, obviously.

Not too pressing a question as we have a baby and toddler so currently working on not dropping the spoon on the floor

Well mine know how to do it and we haven't got staff

I just wanted them to be able to eat in public and know what to do.

Table manners are essential. Nothing worse than eating with an adult who eats with their mouth open or their cutlery the wrong way round imo.

Absolutely necessary. One day your DC might be at their girl/boyfriend's parents or in an important work situation where good table manners create the right impression and bad table manners create a bad one. That said, I'm very judgy about table manners so maybe other people are more relaxed than me. But what if I was the parent-in-law or the important work colleague?

I’m genuinely surprised someone thinks they aren’t necessary. Of course they are. Quite apart from anything else, your children will be bullied at school for it.

Some people use the opposite hands and that’s fine, no one should be forced to do something they’re uncomfortable with. But table manners are absolutely essential. Send your children out into the world without them and people will judge them and their lives will be harder.

Eating with your mouth closed, not talking with a mouth full, elbows off the table, using cutlery properly, how to use a napkin are all really important and it’s certainly not too soon to start with a toddler.

Get food into the baby however they like it but my toddler can use a fork to eat potatoes or veg, can twist spaghetti round a fork etc. It cuts down on mess, she likes copying us and if you don’t get this stuff in place at the start when do you?

At the moment she’s going through a phase of showing us what’s in her mouth which is gross and something we’re working on, she’s not perfect but she’s getting there

I want her to be able to eat anywhere and know how to fit in, whether it’s a burger van or the Ritz. Never too soon to start.

Thanks everyone, you're all on my side. Having the same frustrating conversations over and over about why they are necessary when he uses his knife and fork in the opposite hands (not the worst thing in the world I agree) and point blank refuses to put his cutlery together when he's finished. Sometimes I think he does it to wind me up more than anything else.

@OldTinHat there's NOTHING WORSE than someone else using "their cutlery the wrong way round imo"?

I could fling a sausage at you, dip my bread in your soup and spit my half chewed food out.... And the fact I held my knife in my left hand would be WORSE??

Thanks @AnneLovesGilbert, agreed re cutlery in the wrong hands. That doesn't bother me so much, it does annoy me when he sets mine out the wrong way around though!

Toddler is great with a spoon and getting there with a fork. She likes her little rituals (brushing her teeth is not complete until the stool has been put away etc) so I think once she's been shown once she'll be telling him exactly how it's done

Quite concerning that you've had to ask if table manners are important

Also, what's all this about cutlery in the wrong hands? I think you mean "other"

Of course they should learn it. I wouldn’t insist on them doing it in the house though. Your oh should however he’s comfortable, and what difference does it make if he puts his cutlery together when he’s finished?

Honestly some of the so called manners are just arbitrary ways for people to show they are not part of the great unwashed. Social signalling from Victorian times. Whereas other things are about consideration for those around you.
Personally i think the former is optional but your child should be aware that many people consider it essential. But the latter is definitely essential! Eg chewing reasonably quietly with your mouth mainly closed, keeping the food on your plate rather than throwing it. But if you want to use your wrong hand to hold the fork then knock yourself out, anyone judging you should be judging themselves.

It's essential IMO. When I watch American shows or have been there on holiday the cutlery usage is diabolical, it puts me
off my food. Same as eating with your mouth open, chewing loudly etc.

I am wrong in your opinion. My table manners are fine. I chew properly. Use correct cutlery. Understand how and when fingers/ chopsticks/ spoons/ etc are appropriate. Recently I've had to speak to the school who have called my child up on her "wrongness" - it's not wrong. It's dependent upon your dominant hand and we don't routinely shame lefties now right? (Wrong) children can throw food, they chew mouths open , stomp it underfoot- but MY child using her right hand to hold her fork is unpalatable to the school? The other children needn't witness this filth! Fear they pick up the wrong!!!

@OldTinHat I'm left handed but don't go around broadcasting it. Would you sit there silently judging me for using cutlery the 'wrong' way round?

what difference does it make if he puts his cutlery together when he’s finished?

It's much easier to pick up a plate and carry it away when the cutlery is together. If he always clears the table, he can do it how he pleases. If someone else does it, he should do what makes it easiest for that person.

Right handed people hold their cutlery the wrong way round, as far as I'm concerned.

I hate the robotically performed "please may I leave the table", even more so if it has to be followed by "thank you for a lovely dinner".

I think they are easy enough manners to teach and will be doing so with my son although i do see the point in that what does it actually matter.

I did go to uni with a girl who couldn't use a knife though, was never taught to 'cut' food so would just stab it down and yank the food away with her fork. It drove me mad watching and she always really struggled with certain foods but found it too difficult to change how she had learnt growing up.

It's not the wrong way round though is it? It's just different to you, maybe you're doing it wrong. Providing they can still use the cutlery correctly it's not a problem which hand it's in.

I'd say yes to putting knife & fork together on plate at end but I don't expect mine to ask to get down from the table as a toddler. We focus more on getting them to help tidy up so DS has to take his finished plates to the kitchen at the end of his meals and he likes putting any leftovers or wrappers in the bin.

I'm looking forward to the day I'd get to do the full "pretty woman" formal table demo with them.

@kittenkipping

I am wrong in your opinion. My table manners are fine. I chew properly. Use correct cutlery. Understand how and when fingers/ chopsticks/ spoons/ etc are appropriate. Recently I've had to speak to the school who have called my child up on her "wrongness" - it's not wrong. It's dependent upon your dominant hand and we don't routinely shame lefties now right? (Wrong) children can throw food, they chew mouths open , stomp it underfoot- but MY child using her right hand to hold her fork is unpalatable to the school? The other children needn't witness this filth! Fear they pick up the wrong!!!

Wow that is ridiculous of the school! I would ask how many children are able to use cutlery properly as I've seen a lot in a junior school that can't even use the cutlery to cut up their food. Also how do the school have the time to check which hand is holding the knife and fork when they're supervising so many children! It would takes me weeks to even notice something like that.

Using knives and forks in other hands is more widely acceptable now. My brother and myself were not allowed to use the other hands as lefties but I'm aware of so many that do now.

Putting your cutlery together as someone else said just makes plates easier to carry for whoever is clearing.

We do make ours ask to leave the table which is probably because we were made to and it just feels so odd to me when people don't.

I feel for you, OP. I can see this becoming a massive bone of contention between you as the children grow.

I’m with you: table manners are part of a huge set of societal norms, adherence to which marks people out in the eyes of others. We’re very big on them in our house because, as a PP said, I want my children to know how to behave anywhere, whether it’s a greasy spoon in Dover, or Buckingham Palace.

They are absolutely essential. I'm shocked that someone doesn't think they are.

Cutlery use is further down my list of importance as it's quite hard for them to master, but chewing with mouth closed, not speaking with food in mouth, waiting until everyone is served before starting, asking to leave the table, asking politely for things to be passed to you are all things we teach to our preschooler children.

I hate and detest the knife and fork in the wrong hands.

I can understand left handers struggling but one of my friends does it and it's not the cutlery in the hands so much as he holds the food with his knife and pulls away with the fork.

If he is only using a knife eg to butter bread he used his right hand.

I'm not bothered with spoons so much.

what difference does it make if he puts his cutlery together when he’s finished?

I was once on a business trip, we had an American on the table who didn't know to put the knife and fork together. The waiting staff kept coming round and then walking away. Our table didn't get any pudding.

Our table didn't get any pudding.

@sashh alright you've convinced me! that's tragic

@Sparklfairy

We were all terribly British and didn't mention it. Even when they brought coffee after pudding.