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Parenting

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Clothies- can someone find me the thread debunking that terrible study that "proved" that dispos are as good for the environment as cloth?

8 replies

tissy · 23/11/2007 21:29

My poor SIL is being put under pressure by my db to give in and use Pampers

OP posts:
talktothebees · 23/11/2007 22:02

is [[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=1800&threadid=103825#2244026 this}} what you mean?

talktothebees · 23/11/2007 22:03

oops

is this what you mean?

nannyL · 23/11/2007 22:42

here is my responce to this report

www.environment-agency.gov.uk/commondata/acrobat/nappies_1072099.pdf

you will see that this is May 2005 and one of the biggest (the biggest?) studies of its kind. Also the one that most people refer to.

You can read all 130ish pages, + 50 pages of appendix if you like.... OR i will summarise it for you for people who cant be bothered.

ANYWAY

they assume that 1/3 of people wash their nappies at 90c (i disagree!) table5.7
they assume 10% of nappies are ironed (5.14.7)
they assume 60% of nappies are tumble dried.... (if you look it says their survey sugested that 19% of people tumble dry their nappies but because 75% of household use a dryer they decided to use a figure of 60% (off the top of their heads basicaly)(9.3.2)
they assume 50% of people add softner to their nappies . im sure anyone who uses nappies KNOWS that you do NOT ever add softner to nappies cause it stops them from absorbing.... (also consider the enivironmental impact of the softner.... and of manufacturing the softener.... and of driving to sthe supermarket to by the softener and of the softener going down the drain etc etc) (5.14.5)

It also assumes most people SOAK their nappies and allows 10 litres of water per day.... on top of 75 litres per washing machine load.... a large overestimate on the amount of water most modern machines, having recently got a new washing machine trust me i KNOW, so 85 litres of water per day (5.14.2)

They assume that people have 47.5 'terry nappies' nappies per 6 months (9.3.5)...
and then asses the full environmental impact of manufacturing all that cotton to make 47.5 nappies per 6 months.... and its the MANUFACTURE and water used during manufacture that is basically the major environmental 'problem / issue with' washables
also they acknowledge and justify this figure and in the same sentence say that actually only an average of 40 nappies are bought for the LIFE of the child (personally i cant believe that is an accurate average.... does anyone know anyone with more than 40 nappies?... EVERY person i know has LOADS less)

Its is assumed that 12 nappies are washed at a time (5.14.7) and that it takes a WHOLE HOUR to iron 12 cotton nappies.... and they use that figure of electricity... ie an iron on for an hour to iron 12 cotton squares..... Maybe 12 seconds would be more accurate? or 0 seconds for ironing nappies!]

FOR disposable nappies they assume just over 4 (4.05) nappies per day... this is a LOW estimate IMO especially when you consider new born babies (9.1)

In the summary they conclude that reusable users should reduce they energy they use washing and drying nappies.

SO..... they DO over estimate the washing temperatures, water use, tumble dryer use and iron....

they also allow for FAR too many nappies being manufactured (washables) and asses the environmental impact of the commercial manufacture of the cotton...

(no mention of bamboo which is a much more environmentally friendly material and becoming increasing popular with washable nappies)
then there is the fact that loads of people who choose washables are 'environmentally aware' people who are likely to be using less than 'conventional' washing detergents... such as soap nuts or eco balls, and are likely to be using more energy efficient machines, due to the way they think.

the fact that they only allow for 12 nappies being washed per load then 60% tumble dried (when only 19% of their survey suggested they tumble dried their nappies, AND allowed 1 hour of electric for the iron per load).... yet allow for the manufacture of nearly 200 nappies PER CHILD just shoes how ridiculous this whole study was!

{they also allow for nappies to be travel half way around the world to England.... yet several main brands of washables ARE made here in the uk}

and with 2nd babies etc they DONT need to be manufactured... which IS the main issue with washables

don?t forget we bin 8 MILLION disposables per day and for every £1 a parents spends on nappies the tax payer has to spend 10p disposing of them

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tissy · 24/11/2007 12:37

yes that's the one

thanks very much

OP posts:
MrsGoknzo · 24/11/2007 13:34

Thanks for posting that. I makes for interesting reading.

Who the flip irons nappies. I don't think my bucket holds 10 litres and I certainly don't change it everyday, I wash every 2-3 days and surely most people dry pail these days.

Also mine are being used on my 3rd baby so work that one out :D

Astrophe · 24/11/2007 13:58

nannyl, thanks for that. did they take into account the environmental costs if disst production? ie, water for production of paper, petrol for plastics, chemicals, packaging, transport?

And how do they compare the two? Do they place a £ value on the environmental damage of dissy production and landfill, and a £value on cloth production and washing and compare the figure?

(guess i should read it eh?)

tissy · 24/11/2007 14:44

if you've got a spare few hours....

grr

I used loads of 2nd hand nappies and sold them on, when finished with. We dry pailed and put all nappies in for a cold rinse before putting them in with household laundry at 40 deg. No tumble-drying, no ironing, no farkin' fabric conditioner on the nappies (occasionally on fleece wraps to keep them water resistant).

Did you see the study even factored in the petrol required to go to the shops to buy the nappies and detergent ?

OP posts:
nannyL · 24/11/2007 20:00

Astrophe i cant actually remember.... it is a while since i read the whole report and wrote my comment on it

however the link is there and you are very welcome to open it and scim read it all to find out!

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