Is my 4 yo a brat or is this normal??

[rarecreatures]

Hi, first post on here. I've always found really good advice in the past for questions I've had regarding my 4 yo daughter.

So I observed my daughter playing with her friend today at school. This was the scenario:

My daughter was a bit upset as she was playing alone. She was amongst all the other kids and they all seemed to be just running around doing their own thing. No one was playing any organised activity. I'm not usually at her school, it was a one off morning tea so I got the chance to observe her. I told her to find her best friend and play. Her best friend came over and I suggested the girls play a game. Her friend suggested a game to which my daughter replied in a frustrated tone, "I don't want to play that!" I gave her a sideways glance and said, "Don't be rude, say it nicely" with a look on my face like, what are you doing? I didn't want to make a big deal in front of her friend but I don't encourage my daughter to speak that way. Then the girls starting talking about another game and my daughter did explain that she didn't feel like playing that (still sounding frustrated), I didn't want to interfere so I left them to it after that.

Am I overreacting to make a thing of this? Is this just how kids talk? I only have 1 child, so I can't compare how she speaks with siblings. Even then, I know that you speak differently to your siblings than you do to friends. How do I teach her to say what she feels but in a more polite way. Does it even matter at this age (4 years old)?

At home I've been teaching her to "say it nicely" since she was 2. For the most part, she's good. She speaks to me really kindly but sometimes gives her Dad a bit of lip. She doesn't use rude words, but her tone can be exasperated/frustrated. Stuff like "No I don't want to!" In an angry, exasperated tone. "I don't like it!" (she says that a lot lately). Or just making a big "umpgh!" noise and looking cranky if things don't go her way. We try to remind her to speak her mind but in a polite way.

I just don't want her to be a moody, sulky kid with her friends. She uses that frustrated tone with our families at times and we've tried to pull her up but our families just give in to her.

I want her to know how to use her voice but just do it nicely.

just let her be.
she's only 4.
why are you trying to squash every honestly expressed emotion.
aren't we all being told to share how we feel, as adults, to promote mental health, yet you are expecting a 4 year old to behave as if she's top of the class at finishing school.
it's unnatural and pointless. too much censorship.

She’s not a brat at 4 years old but she will have to learn to express herself in a socially acceptable way at some point.

She was probably behaving differently because you were there. I'm a Reception teacher and often find children really act up or behave really unusually when their parents are there. It's like they can't quite reconcile their two 'worlds'. Reading your description of events, it sounds like your DD probably didn't actually want to play with a friend because you were there and she didn't really know what to do with herself. This kind of turmoil, and the self-consciousness of knowing you were watching, might well have made her speak in a way she wouldn't normally. I wouldn't worry about it. Mention it to her teacher if you want reassurance though.

@3ormorecharacters

She was probably behaving differently because you were there. I'm a Reception teacher and often find children really act up or behave really unusually when their parents are there. It's like they can't quite reconcile their two 'worlds'. Reading your description of events, it sounds like your DD probably didn't actually want to play with a friend because you were there and she didn't really know what to do with herself. This kind of turmoil, and the self-consciousness of knowing you were watching, might well have made her speak in a way she wouldn't normally. I wouldn't worry about it. Mention it to her teacher if you want reassurance though.

That's good to hear actually. While I'm sure this kind of thing has happened before (I've witnessed my daughter being bossy but also being on the receiving end of bossy behaviour) it's good to get a teachers perspective, as I don't receive much feedback from her teachers other than she's lovely but quiet. I did wonder how parental presence impacts kids behaviour. I'll definitely keep this in mind for future reference.

Sounds normal to me, she’s 4. Ive never told my kids to say anything nicely, kind hands yes but I feel you’re putting a lot of empathise on this. As she is a girl, I’d be careful in drumming this in (I only have boys but also teach her to stand up for herself etc, not everything is to be said nicely to be fair!). That’s just my opinion though as I feel girls are constantly told to ‘be nice and kind’ whereas typically boys aren’t really sent the same message!

She definitely doesn’t sound like a brat though OP, don’t worry.

@alexdgr8

just let her be. she's only 4. why are you trying to squash every honestly expressed emotion. aren't we all being told to share how we feel, as adults, to promote mental health, yet you are expecting a 4 year old to behave as if she's top of the class at finishing school. it's unnatural and pointless. too much censorship.

Not trying to quash every honestly expressed emotion, just wanted feedback on whether its typical behaviour for kids that age or something for me to address with her.

I agree that as adults we are encouraged to share how we feel to promote mental health, but we do have a duty to share it in a healthy way or in an appropriate space. I don't want my child to grow up entitled and thinking she can dump emotions all over people and expect them to deal with the consequences. Not conducive to healthy relationships.

@WhoDidAndWhy

She’s not a brat at 4 years old but she will have to learn to express herself in a socially acceptable way at some point.

I know there's definitely worse "bratty" behaviour out there but would really like to help her learn to express her opinion in a socially acceptable way. That's a perfect way of looking at it, thanks for your feedback.

@Tetrixxs

Sounds normal to me, she’s 4. Ive never told my kids to say anything nicely, kind hands yes but I feel you’re putting a lot of empathise on this. As she is a girl, I’d be careful in drumming this in (I only have boys but also teach her to stand up for herself etc, not everything is to be said nicely to be fair!). That’s just my opinion though as I feel girls are constantly told to ‘be nice and kind’ whereas typically boys aren’t really sent the same message!

She definitely doesn’t sound like a brat though OP, don’t worry.

Yeh this is exactly what runs through my head. That dilemma of wanting her to grow into a person that knows how to speak well and treat people politely, but still be able to speak her mind. I probably am overthinking, but as I mentioned I just don't have a great idea of what is normal behaviour for kids as I only have 1!

Does sound pretty typical 4 year old behaviour.

I try to emphasize being respectful not necessarily nice. My four year old thinks being nice is just agreeing to what the other person asks. We talk about saying no or yes in a respectful way. It's so hard and lots of adults don't do it!

@Laserbird16

Does sound pretty typical 4 year old behaviour.

I try to emphasize being respectful not necessarily nice. My four year old thinks being nice is just agreeing to what the other person asks. We talk about saying no or yes in a respectful way. It's so hard and lots of adults don't do it!

Yes so hard! Takes a lot of self awareness to really know yourself and speak confidently and politely. A lot to ask of a 4 yo hey!

Stuff like "No I don't want to!" In an angry, exasperated tone. "I don't like it!
this isn’t giving her Dad lip, it’s expressing her feelings. Do you want her to be a subservient little girl who just smiles and agrees? Her personality is evolving, you seem a bit OTT in your expectations, she is allowed to say no.

@HerMammy

Stuff like "No I don't want to!" In an angry, exasperated tone. "I don't like it! this isn’t giving her Dad lip, it’s expressing her feelings. Do you want her to be a subservient little girl who just smiles and agrees? Her personality is evolving, you seem a bit OTT in your expectations, she is allowed to say no.

Put that way, I don’t disagree. This is why I posted, to get some perspective on what’s normal. I don’t have an issue with what she is saying, she’s absolutely allowed to have an opinion. My issue is how she expresses it. Tbh I couldn’t really think of great examples of her “giving lip” I just know in the past we’ve chatted to her about asking for things in a calm voice as opposed to screaming and having a tantrum.

Omg my 4 year old says everything is a frustrated tone, I can’t tell her off after every one but I am seriously getting fed up with
“I told you mummy”…followed by a sigh or a tut
Attitude!!!!

Totally see where you're coming from here
... My 5 year old has the rudest way of speaking sometimes, it drives me nuts as I'm always telling him "You can tell me that in a nice way / in a nice voice!".
So no advice, just solidarity. Maybe it's their personalities evolving and them finding a way to assert their independence, but it's certainly quite a drag at home and embarrassing when out in public!

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

Omg my 4 year old says everything is a frustrated tone, I can’t tell her off after every one but I am seriously getting fed up with “I told you mummy”…followed by a sigh or a tut Attitude!!!!

Yeah it’s really irritating at times! I just find it off putting as it can be said in a normal tone and she would get her point across without irritating whoever is on the receiving end. I just want to educate her how to converse, anyway sounds like it could just be something they do and perhaps grow out of as they become more socially aware.

From what I've observed of this age group this is really normal.

My 4yo DD isn't at school yet but she and her nursery friends seem to be perpetually saying to each other "let's play this! "no i don't want to!" "but i want to" "and i don't" "hmpfff" I've been tempted to intervene occasionally but IME it tends to make things worse; they seem to have funny ways of regulating these things among themselves and generally muddling through

OR, of course, I'm raising a brat and I just don't realise it yet!!

She’s using a frustrated tone…..because she’s frustrated!
She’s four!
She doesn’t need “educated in how to converse” she needs left with time to work out her feelings, needs and wants in her own way.
Leave her be (unless she’s being violent towards her peers of course), just back off and stop trying to mould your child into a mini adult.
All said in the kindest possible way…of course.

It’s only at age 4 that kids actually start to play cooperatively as in properly playing a game together with compromise and all following the same set of rules. Developmentally what you’ve described sounds totally normal. You Also probably muddied the waters simply by being there and by getting involved. It’s also great that she’s able to assert herself and say what she wants, or doesn’t want. 4 year olds are blunt! We tell ours to say ‘no thank you’ instead of ‘I don’t want’ but we do find ourselves repeating it a lot!

@3ormorecharacters

She was probably behaving differently because you were there. I'm a Reception teacher and often find children really act up or behave really unusually when their parents are there. It's like they can't quite reconcile their two 'worlds'. Reading your description of events, it sounds like your DD probably didn't actually want to play with a friend because you were there and she didn't really know what to do with herself. This kind of turmoil, and the self-consciousness of knowing you were watching, might well have made her speak in a way she wouldn't normally. I wouldn't worry about it. Mention it to her teacher if you want reassurance though.

I really recognise that from when dd was about 4. She was fine at home and the school always said she was fine but if I was with her at a play date she'd behave quite strangely sometimes.

Sounds like me at that age, I was an only child and was very selective about who I played with. My best friend (who still is now) would always just play what and how i wanted haha, the friends who I didn't like to play with were ones who tried to get me to play their games. I was also quite happy playing by myself. Combo of being a Leo and only child haha. But you're right to encourage her to be more tactful!

Your post made me a bit sad actually. They cannot regulate their emotions at this age and need you to be their safe place for them to be able to express them 'not pulling her up'. You might not want her to be the moody kid but that's your wish. Please don't put expectation on her. You should just be modelling the right behaviours.

My DD is 6 and her attitude definitely increased when she started school at 4. Talking to her friends mums, it seems to have happened with all of them, boys and girls. The school often say they are generally kind and polite children, very few issues amongst them, but get them home and the attitude comes out. It's a developmental stage. Our children are still running through it having spent a significant period of reception and year one at home in lockdown.

80% of the time my DD is the nicest, politest, most loving child, the other 20%, its pure diva. She can deal with her emotions in a 'socially acceptable' way, however at home, with me DH and DS, it's her safe safe, she can react wildly and know she will still love safe and loved, even if she occasionally gets told off for the way she expresses herself (if she is offensive to others/hurts someone else/ is destructive etc).

She is 4, she is normal. They won't always act the way you want or think they should, but the vast vast majority turn into perfectly acceptable humans.

I wouldn't worry if I was you BUT encourage it. I wouldn't just say, say it nicely. To me that's to broad, it's similar to saying be careful to younger children. You're the parent so you can live by example when they respond in a way that you consider rude, ask her to explain why she doesn't want to play that game right now and what she would like to play, and maybe say that's how she could have responded.

It might be easier to let her lead as to what she wants to do rather than suggesting things (it's easier said than done, I suggest things all the time but know I should let my son take the lead).