Please help!

[Monkeymilkshake]

I have a 4yo (nearly 5) who has many tantrums/ fits of rage per day.
Today was a very bad day, i think it has been made worse because she is tired, but it went as follows:

• woke up and cried about taking night nappy off
• we had a familly day out

- cried about putting suncream on - cried/screamed because the quality of the sand wasnt what she wanted

• once home it got worse:

- screamed, hit and threw things because i asked her to flush the toilet and wash her hands. This went on for 1hr - took a toy out of brother’s hands so i asked to give it back, more screaming and rage - screamed and kicked at bath time because she’s bored of baths…

• now screaming at bedtime (it’s early but she’s lost it and i feel there is nothing else we can do)

I’ve read all the books, i stay calm, we let her express herself, we talk about anger, that there are things in life you need to do (like flushing and washing your hands…).
I just feel, whatever we do it’s not good enough. I cant help her. People say it’s a phase, but it has been going on for nearly 3 years. Not every day is as bad as this but most days are unpleasant.

I just would like to know if any body else has experienced this? What did you do for your child? What did you do for you?

DH is well on board with support, letting her express herself etc. But i feel we’ve reach the end if what we can cope with. Help please!!

Have you rule out physical issues? Worms, constipation, dehydration or allergies?

I think I’m this situation it might be worth speaking to the GP as this level of tantrums in a 4 year is beyond the norm.

Ask your GP to put you in touch with your Health Visitor if you don't already have it. They will most definitely support you and give real advice and coping strategies. Good luck x

Hi, sorry to hear you're finding it difficult - and that your DD is struggling. Is her speech development typical - if you ask her why she doesn't want to flush the loo / wash hands / get in the bath can / will she tell you? Do you give her a bit of notice before she needs to get off the loo / into the bath / do you explain why she needs suncream?
From what you've described it sounds like she is struggling with sensory things (eg the feel of suncream / sand / getting wet in the bath) and transitions (eg changing from night nappy / coming off the loo to flush and wash hands) - is there any chance she could have SEN / be neurodivergent?

Thanks for the answers!
She’s very good with words, she told us she use to be scared of suncream so we explained what it was etc then she was a bit better with it but today lost it.
She doesnt want to flush because she doesnt want her hands to get dirty but then also doesnt want to wash them… she does all these things with no problem at nursery!
I’ll try the gp.

My 8 year old still kicks off about sun cream and my husband hates the feeling of it so that could be a sensory thing she will eventually learn to put up with. Usually when my kids are being unusually tantrummy it means they are either coming down with an illness or overtired or overwhelmed (e.g. something is worrying them). As mine are older, I do tell them no wailing/whining but they can have as many cuddles as they want.

i stay calm, we let her express herself, we talk about anger

She's expressing herself far too freely if you ask me.

I'm probably going to get it in the neck from other PPs for saying this, but have you tried saying in a cross voice (you don't actually have to be cross, just sound it):

"DO AS YOU ARE TOLD and stop making that noise!!"?

Yes my nearly 8 still really hates sunscreen, theres always screaming for sunscreen. I wonder if you need to pick your battles - save flushing for now and focus on the essentials like sunscreen (if horrendous give up for a while and stay in shade and so remove the battle for now), and hand washing. Hand washing is essential for a 4 year old, maybe flushing isnt. Go for a playful parenting approach? Go for distraction rather than allowing things to escalate. or change sunscreen type, get her to choose one or something, but for now deescalate and shift the issue. Give her the choice? Make the essential rules (hand washing) very clear and written down, discussed with her and why - sat down making a list of family rules together. But save things like flushing for the future?

I’ll try no whinging but as many cuddles as she wants!

Yes we have also said “do as your told / just do it”. Depending on the day it works or not.
As soon as the screaming/rage as passed she’s a lovely sweet little girl.

The raging tantrums only happen with me and DH; not with grand parents, nursery, friends… always always us! So i think that’s why we are finding it so hard!

My child was like this. Utterly painful to us and an angel with everyone else. Just a constant flow of defiance, anger and noise. It was exhausting so I understand the way you’re feeling. We ruled out medical issues, sought psychological help, everything. Nothing worked to settle her.

When she started school it changed. We also started to take her for a long run before school to tire her out. It worked, and she was calm and sweet and could regulate her emotions much better. Not 100% of the time, but much better. Even now (she’s upper primary) she has far more energy than her peers and does a huge amount of competitive physical activity every week (20 hrs +) which keeps her moods in check. We also heavily restrict technology because that triggers her too.

So in summary, rule out medical stuff, lots of exercise and no screens. That’s what works for us. Good luck to you

PS Lots of sleep (10 hrs minimum) and healthy food too.

Sounds sensory to me. Have you done any reading about sensory issues at all? Some children find sensory stimulation extremely difficult to cope with - something like an itchy label will bother them to the point of it seeming painful, which will then lead to tantrums/grouchiness/overreaction to other things. Sun cream can feel sticky and nasty for the whole day. Things that are no big deal or a minor annoyance to other children are really difficult to cope with for these kids.

Sensory issues can go along with SEN but they can also just be standalone. Have a look at the book Too Fast, Too Bright, Too Loud, Too Tight. It's not a recent one so probably won't be expensive second hand or your library might have it.

@BertieBotts The OP says that she only misbehaves like this for her parents, and doesn't do it at nursery or with GPs etc. So I reckon it isn't likely to be sensory issues, it's just playing up.

It's not sensory anything, she's being a beast for you like many children are for their parents.^^ Who loves putting sun cream on?

The key is in how you deal with the behaviour. I query 'letting her express herself.' What does that mean exactly?

You need to be firm, but fair. Don't attempt to negotiate with her. Less talk is more. "You need to wash your hands." End of. If she moves away from the bathroom move her back again. "You need to wash your hands." She'll give in once she realises you won't be moving on until she's done it.

Gosh OP I could have written this about my DS5 today.

He can be so gentle and wonderful at times but then he will go through awful spells like this. It's usually when he's tired or coming down with a virus.

Today I think he's exhausted and it's bloody hot. Sun cream was also our catalyst.

I don't have advice just moral support!

[quote MustardRose]@BertieBotts The OP says that she only misbehaves like this for her parents, and doesn't do it at nursery or with GPs etc. So I reckon it isn't likely to be sensory issues, it's just playing up.[/quote]
That's not true. Very often children with sensory issues (and SEN) can mask very effectively around others. The difficult behaviours are often reserved for where they feel safest- usually home with parents.
This may well not be that, but as it's gone on for so long, it's certainly worth raising with gp/hv

@ItsGotToBePizza I'm on the spectrum and have sensory issues myself, so I do actually know enough about it to comment.

it's gone on for so long - exactly. It started too young for her to be masking when she's with other people and then letting it all out at home. Loads of kids play up for one parent and not the other - in this case it seems to be both.

I reckon she's in severe need of a lot more firm boundaries, consistent "Do as you are told" and "Now, please" and a lot less of the letting her express herself, and explaining why she should or shouldn't do this or that.

Yes I was going to expand actually and say about the masking around others as this is very common. I just forgot

I don't think it sounds like the OP and partner are failing to have boundaries. You can have boundaries while accepting feelings. 4/5 years old is a fine age to have explanations for things. It doesn't always work as a persuasion tool but it's not like we're talking about a toddler here - it's a sensible measure which can help.

IME when the tantrums and behaviour like this lasts past its normal sell by date it is indicative that there is something going on, whatever that might be.

The OP also mentioned another child but no such extreme issues with them (I appreciate she didn't mention the age so the other child may be a baby). When it's parenting and reluctance to have any boundaries/leadership it tends to be all of the children collectively that the parent(s) are struggling with.

Thanks everybody for the replies!
I’ll try and answer questions.
So by expressing herself, i mean we let her express her opinions, say it’s normal to get angry, sad, upset, happy etc but it’s not fine to scream and hit. We also do say “just wash your hands” and not disscuss every thing in too much detail.

She does like to know why things happen/are needed, that’s why we explained about the suncream and since then she’s been mostly fine about it.

I dont think we are too liberal in our parenting; there is quite a bit of do as your told for day to day things but i understand the comments about being more firm.

My DS has only just turn 2 so i think it’s a bit too early to tell!

I’m no doctor so i can’t say for sure but i dont think she has SEN; i’ll call the GP on monday and see if someone can see us so we can have a chat.

It’s honestly so draining for us (and i’m sure for her too), i just wish i could help her when she gets so angry.

Thanks again everybody!

Where you can (ie. not sun cream) give her as much independence and choice as possible and choose your battles. I would let mine dress as Batman to go to the dentist or wear their onsie in the back garden etc. because it doesn't really matter and I didn't want to be constantly fighting with them!

I'm with @MustardRose on this one. Boundaries and firm explanations,firm instructions. A lot of emphasis is placed on giving children options and decisions to make, too often it can be too much for children to think about at this young age.

I'm currently going through a naughty phase with my DS1 who is almost 4. My mum gives me the advice (old fashioned some might say) to be firm and say 'don't! or 'no!'. A full explanation in the heat of the moment why something is happening can be too much information at once. Once everything is calm then proceed to explain. This is something I'm going to try myself.

Also, I may be wrong here but who said tantrums stop by 5? I have yet to get to that age with my DC. It sounds like normal behaviour until they understand that they can't always get their own way and at times do have to do things they don't want to, so a normal parenting issue not something unusual for you OP but totally understand how tiring having a spirited child can be.