Ds4 is lonely

[SchrodingersMother]

I have 4 dc

Dd1 is 14
Dd2 is 12
Ds1 is 9
Ds2 is 6

Despite the obvious fallings out of siblings, dds always got on well, and dd2 always got on with ds1. But ds1 just cannot be friends with ds2

For the first 7 months of ds2s life ds1 didn't even acknowledge his existence, then they played together a bit for a year or so, but now ds1 just hasn't got time for him.

I've tried one to one time with elder son and really spending time And focusing on him, but he genuinely seems to dislike ds2

Ds2 can be a bit whiny but when the other kids pay him attention the happiness just radiates from him, he will go along with what the older kids want to play so it's not like he's dictating what they do.

My daughters give him a bit of attention but they're older so it's not the same. He is desperate for ds1s friendship but ds1 only wants to play with dd2 or on his own, it's almost like he hates ds2. If ds2 starts to tell me about an imaginary game or situation, ds1 will come out with something like ' no that's not how it works' etc.

I would just love for them to get along and I really don't know what to do to help it.

They do have a couple of similar interests but ds1 has no interest in talking to ds2 about them, he just speaks to him like he's stupid

Sorry title can't be edited. He's my 4th child, second son and he's 6 years old

Isn’t this normal
For sibling relationships? I have a ds 9 and a ds 7 and they can’t stand each other

I'm so sorry to hear that OP that must be so disappointing. But maybe you could try a different approach and let your DS1 just be and not be friends with DS2. Focus on play dates for DS2? I'd be worried that if you keep pushing it DS1 will resist. You can't make them be friends but it might come in time if you're a bit less invested? Worth a try?

I don't push it. Occasionally I'll suggest they might want to do something that interests them both. But I know that more I mention it the more he will resist. But ds1 just can't stand ds2

I know that siblings fight, and hate each other at times, God know my daughters are at each other's throats at times but other times they get on. Same with younger daughter and older son. But ds1 seems to just really really dislike ds2, he just hates him.
I do have ds 2 friends over etc but it just seems so lovely for him to have 3 brother and sisters but no one who will pay him any attention

It could be the ages as well as at those ages they won’t have much in common and I know older kids find younger ones annoying, as said I would concentrate more on other friendships

Thanks, I just feel so sad for him. It's not just ds1 not wanting to do things with him, but he puts ds2 down at every opportunity. He will criticise and contradict everything he says. It's really affecting ds2s confidence, as he's now almost expecting to be told he's wrong whenever he talks about something.

I’m not sure you can force a friendship, it’s pretty normal for a 9 year old to not want to play with a 6 year old. My nieces are 10 & 7 and I’d say niece no.1 tolerates no.2 at best. She isn’t unkind but she does not play with her unless somewhat forced.

By the time they are 21 & 18, they might be the best of pals!

I wouldn’t tolerate unkindness though. DS1 doesn’t have to play with DS2 but that doesn’t mean he is unkind, critical or to make DS2 feel rubbish. I’m quite strict with my elder DD’s behaviour around DD2. I tell her off & remove treats if she’s been unkind or using unkind words. Again, with the message you don’t have to play with your sister. I know she’s small & ruins your games sometimes. I understand. But we are not mean to her, mummy does not tolerate that. I have two, it’s a whole heap easier to hear everything they do & crack down than with 4 I’m sure!

I’d be careful not to project your worries onto your littlest though. I think as adults, it’s easy to think ‘oh god, he must be miserable & lonely’, when actually he’s perfectly fine buffering along as the youngest and probably getting a fair bit of your adult attention in comparison to the teenagers hiding in their rooms!

That's exactly what I say, thank you. I tell him he doesn't have to play with him but constantly criticising and putting him down is not acceptable

Do you tell DS1 off as soon as he starts up? I would - I would knock this on the head straightaway and put him down verbally.
But I would also not be trying to persuade him to
Play with DS2.
There might well be an element of jealousy here. DS1 was the baby with his sisters and parents attention - and then DS2 came along.

What are the consequences for DS1 for being mean and nasty? If he's continuing to do it, perhaps they need reviewing.

It's sad but there isn't much you can do to make them friends, but you do need to punish him for being a bully

Thanks all it seems that orders do I do what I'm doing. If ds1 starts then I tell him it's not acceptable. If he carries on then there are consequences, no gaming etc.

I don't make him play with him. I just wish he wasn't so awful with him, Luke he hates him

Try reading How To Talk So Kids Will Listen

Talk to him alone and describe the issue as a problem that needs solving (not criticising or blaming him).
Try to find out what DS2 does that makes him angry, frustrated, or sad.
Frame it as the problem is I don't like seeing any of my children sad or angry and we need some ideas on how to fix this.
If you find out things that DS2 does that really annoy him (that you might have never even noticed or thought of) you can later talk to DS2 and help him to do something else to minimise chances for conflict.
Offer your own ideas when talking to DS1 and be receptive to whatever he suggests also. Could be something as simple as he hates it when he is reading a book and DS2 tries to talk to him. The solution could be you get a kids teepee for his room with a lamp and that's his special reading nook.

Agree with kangaroo sally, you've got to get to the root cause, and not just treat the symptom.

I have two sons 8 and 5 and the older is often critical and bossy with the younger. He will play with him though but then drop him as soon as he is bored or the younger is not game to being bossed in the game. It's normal sibling relationship. They do love each other sometimes though but I do try and make sure the older isn't mean to the younger but the younger has a habit of being stubborn at times and won't listen to kind requests which then gets the older frustrated hence bossy and shouty behaviour can happen. I try let them get on with it but step in if there is any major arguing etc. I do my best to try see both sides of the story and treat them fairly. As other people have said try not to stress the issue too much. Correct the older when he is being unkind (he sounds like he is bullying him a bit) but maybe try to get to the root cause of the dislike.

@KangarooSally thank you that's great advice

Difficult isn't it. My 2 sons are now 21 and 19 and have never been close. They have hardly argued as they never speak to each other. They have nothing in common. Both are lovely adults, but just because they are brothers it doesn't mean they have to be best of friends.

@SchrodingersMother
DS1 sounds jealous of DS2. He was previously the youngest child and the only boy, now DS2 has changed that dynamic and some children have personality types that really resent this.
He's starring to bully his sibling to undermine him which you absolutely have to stop.

You've told DS1 enough times that his meaness and unkindness is unacceptable. Every single time he starts talking mean just take his gaming away etc straightaway (and reassure DS2, get him to finish whatever he wants to say and give him your undivided attention while he does so). They will both see that his meanness has immediate consequences. Stop giving DS1 chances. There's every likelihood they'll be close once they're older but you've got to stop this bullying now otherwise it can really damage DS2.