Disciplining 6 year old, harsh or not

[Bez2011]

Hi first post but just had an argument regarding my 6 year old step sons punishment with the other half.
A little back story, when I first met her she had 7 children, 4 of which was within a 10 year marriage, but it broke do when the 4th child was 3. The first 3 are girls straight A students, the other one (boy) was very naughty.

She had another 4 year relationship where she had the 6 year old boy in question. Father left and never saw him again, 2 more which were accidents and we have had a little one and soon to be getting married.

The 6 year old boy has copied the older boy with his behaviour, and has a attitude a disregarding of the rules pushes every turn, he's not all bad but you tell him not to do it, says OK and 5mins later he's secretly doing it with a cocky attitude.

This has slowly gotten worse over the past year and a half.

The problem is my other half has been bringing them up on her own and for an easy life allowed them to get away things he probably shouldn't of.

Says one thing to him, then a night sleep everything is forgotten about and back to the same thing he's good for a bit and then back to the attitude.

Now when I've joined their family, I'm highly qualified with education regarding children and as much leeway and patience I have if a someone tells a child that they cant do something I stick to that, trying to back her.

Now this latest one has got me on edge and shouted back at her.

He was very naughty over the weekend, attitude doing everything we said not to and thenother half shouted at him that his tablet will be taken away for as long as 2 weeks. We talked about it later and she said she just doesn't know what to do with him, I said we'll maybe we should take his tablet away properly and tell him that if he's reasonable good all week he coul have time at the weekend on his tablet. Giving him a goal, as nothing else seems to work. Taking tablet a way for 1 night doesn't really do anything.
She said anything.

Roll on to this morning and he keeps going on about the tablet and ive already said weekend. But she turns round and says yes you can have it tonight. And I'm just shocked and said but we agreed weekend.
Turns out that o had booked for us to go for a meal tonight and the older children are looking after them and they asked to make it easier and I was like but we have many tvs with netflix, toys and I just think it's just showing him that what we say means nothing.

But her argument is that he's been without it for 3 days and hes only 6 years old.

Which I dont agree with. I believe a 6 year old (year 2 nearly 7) has enough up their to understand that if his behaviour is better by weekend then he can have it.

Am I in the wrong?

Not just that but she shouts all this 2 weeks and no tablet at the lad at the time when angry. To me that's showing the lad that what's she says means nothing and ive backed her and now looks like I'm just being horrible and I'm now having an argument because I've stuck with what we told him at the time.

Sorry for the long post.
Just wanted to get peoples views.
I know he's not my child.
Thankyou

Is she a good mum or are the younger kids kind of left to be mothered by the older kids. Be honest. I personally couldn’t be in a relationship with someone who didn’t agree with my parenting techniques.

@GrumpyHoonMain

Is she a good mum or are the younger kids kind of left to be mothered by the older kids. Be honest. I personally couldn’t be in a relationship with someone who didn’t agree with my parenting techniques.

I'd say she is a good mum, its more the heat of the moment saying what she's going to do. Me backing her up and follow through with it to then be the bad one because she now thinks its to harsh and that he's only 6 and won't get it. But in my eyes I think its pretty fair to give him a week without and if reasonably good through out the week, he can have it back.

I don't think you're wrong about needing to follow through with threats/consequences and the two of you presenting a united front... but I think "reasonably good" is too vague for a 6 year old. I think a star chart with very specific standards/goals would work better.

I agree with consequences and following through with your word but I feel sorry for the poor boy in this situation. You have twice described a 6 year old as naughty - his main influence for behaviour is his family and there has been no consistency for him. A child at that age is not naughty and you have labelled him as such and likely treat him that way too if you say it so readily so he will meet that expectation

His mother appears to be more intent on being his friend and having peace rather than being consistent and following through with actions. His father is out of the picture and he is one of so many children all of whom appear to have contact with theirs.

Sounds to me like he is being failed by those around him

Empty threats (and promises) undermine any consequences for actions. Which, in turn, can lead to more unacceptable behaviour as a child doesn’t know where they stand.

Could you sit down together and come up with a reasonable strategy that can written down so you can fall back on it?

As an example:
Back chat - start again and give them a chance to redeem themselves.
Outright defiance after being told no - no tablet for one night. Can be added to if behaviour continues.
Taking food - no treats for a day

Or along those lines? It’s much easier when the individuals know where they stand but consistency is crucial (in my opinion) if you want to truly turn it around.

He has had an awful lot of change in his very short life so far. After him came another two children who are 'accidents' - are they also with his father or different relationships? Then his mum met you and had another baby with you - so that is three siblings in five years? And possibly three different relationships / father figures too? How does his own father feel about his behaviour?
I think he may need some help to cope with so much change and that could be why he is acting out a bit. Does he get one in one attention?

@VodkaSlimline

I don't think you're wrong about needing to follow through with threats/consequences and the two of you presenting a united front... but I think "reasonably good" is too vague for a 6 year old. I think a star chart with very specific standards/goals would work better.

I agree with the star chart idea, which I'm going to implement.

And I know its vague reasonable good I didn't explain it to him that way, I explained it properly. I was just being vague writing it on here.
I'm just trying to see whether after countless times of taking the tablet off him,and it wasn't working, doing a week, what give more meaningful understanding.

Not that he's always doing this, back chat is my main concern as, he's only 6 and I understand he's learnt this from his old brother, im trying to teach him actions have consequences. Not after a day or 2 all is forgotten, when the discipline was put in place.
Hopefully that makes sense

@riddles26

I agree with consequences and following through with your word but I feel sorry for the poor boy in this situation. You have twice described a 6 year old as naughty - his main influence for behaviour is his family and there has been no consistency for him. A child at that age is not naughty and you have labelled him as such and likely treat him that way too if you say it so readily so he will meet that expectation

His mother appears to be more intent on being his friend and having peace rather than being consistent and following through with actions. His father is out of the picture and he is one of so many children all of whom appear to have contact with theirs.

Sounds to me like he is being failed by those around him

I'm being loose with the word naughty on here. Ee have a good relationship. He gets what he wants, has every toy you can think consoles, netflix, treated fairly.

I believe children can be naughty at that age, and have nothing to do with family behaviour.
Naughty means doing something that they know isn't right or shouldn't be doing and doing it anyway.

He is praised when he is good.
But yes I agree back chat os coming from his older brother and I'm trying to stamp that out as best as I can.

My concern is I think a week without a device with a goal that at the end of the week he can have it back, that its a meaningful lesson, that good behaviour is rewarded. But is that to harsh, when we have tried taking away for a day or 2 in the past and hasn't really made a impact.

He's a good kid and we have a good relationship but he knows right from wrong and even when he knows he shouldn't do things he does it, even if we had a discussion about it 5 minutes earlier.

@Gatehouse77

Empty threats (and promises) undermine any consequences for actions. Which, in turn, can lead to more unacceptable behaviour as a child doesn’t know where they stand.

Could you sit down together and come up with a reasonable strategy that can written down so you can fall back on it?

As an example:
Back chat - start again and give them a chance to redeem themselves.
Outright defiance after being told no - no tablet for one night. Can be added to if behaviour continues.
Taking food - no treats for a day

Or along those lines? It’s much easier when the individuals know where they stand but consistency is crucial (in my opinion) if you want to truly turn it around.

I completely agree. Im in the mind set that once a discipline is in forced that we should go through with it, not let it slide just because it makes life easier. I believe it teaches them a good life lesson. Im very fair and im very patient with everything. I dont go all guns blazing. He was told once, twice and third time on multiple occasions within the same day and this where it lead to a week off his device for something for him to work towards. I dont believe a 6 year old is to young to understand that. The only reason for the week ban was due to 1 or 2 nights not really holding any value to it for him.

Thats where we are at, the other half is more say it in the moment but not follow through it now seems where I am backing her up and sticking by her words to him, to try and show a united front. Now I feel like I've been out to be the bad one and now questioning whether it is to harsh.

@zaffa

He has had an awful lot of change in his very short life so far. After him came another two children who are 'accidents' - are they also with his father or different relationships? Then his mum met you and had another baby with you - so that is three siblings in five years? And possibly three different relationships / father figures too? How does his own father feel about his behaviour? I think he may need some help to cope with so much change and that could be why he is acting out a bit. Does he get one in one attention?

I know and fully understand that, I have degrees in child phsycology and have worked with children my whole life. His father has nothing to do with him, left his mother shortly after giving birth. 2 other siblings after are from different fathers, mishaps as in contraception pills didn't work, but 1 upped and left when she fell pregnant, the other was abusive but she tried to keep it together. Our baby we waited over a year to have one, so our family unit was setup before hand.

He does get one on one. This is what is frustrating as he has our attentions, the usual methods of discipline wasn't working. Heat of the moment on this instance due to multiple disagreement with him and him not obeying both of us and the back chat led to this punishment. Now for me to be undermine in front of him because she's had a change of heart, is now questioning whether it was to harsh or not when the other stuff hasnt worked.

I believe full heartedly a week without, just Monday till Friday without device is good for him and gives him a reason to think about his actions.

Poor boy, it sounds like his mum is a mess tbh, he is 6 years old and has 3 younger siblings by different men in that short space of time. If you are such an expert in children then I am amazed you can’t see the very obvious reasons he is acting up.

Be clear.
Give realistic, age appropriate sanctions.
Don't punish for 'naughtiness' Be specific and pick your battles.
I am astounded that you don't seem to understand just how much this kid's environment has affected his behaviour and coping strategies.
His mum has a baby and his father figure leaves. Every time.
You and her have just had a baby.
This is not about naughtiness.

Ahh she sounds like my brother. Drives poor SIL mad, because he gives a punishment and then backtracks while she is trying to stick to it which basically in the kids eyes makes her look like the bitch in the end because “but daddy said yes!”
I honestly couldnt be with someone who has such different views in parenting. It will be a constant battle and cause fights over and over.

I think you should sit down together and have a proper talk in a quiet moment. She has to stop yelling random punishments that never happen or she has to stick to them no matter what.. its the only way.

She's got 8 kids by 4/5? Fathers. The poor kid has lacked stability and is probably acting out.
I don't know if you need to keep the tablet for a whole week or not - that's barely the point tbh.

I think following through on punishments is vital, shouting punishments when you're angry at a child is not how she should be doing it though - it suggests she has lost control. A week is too long for a six year old IMO - he will not spend this time thinking about his actions, that suggestion is ridiculous! and also suggests this is out of control and that she is just threatening more and more, longer and longer to try and get the control back. This is not going to work as the child will stop caring or keep on until they get their own way. She then gives in for an easy life.

I would suggest the child behaves the way he does because this is how she handles his behaviour. The girls were easy and she could get away with hardly parenting them I expect but the boys (not unusually) need clearer boundaries, consistency and following through. They need time which I doubt there is a lot of with 7 kids, the kids have been through all sorts of unheaval and some have no input from their father including the boy and no doubt has low self esteem and this is also why he is behaving this way.

He needs a lot of time, attention, positive activities, keeping busy and guidance as does the older boy. You don't say what exactly they are doing wrong though so it's difficult to suggest how to handle it. I think you really need to decide on consequences though so you're not just escalating the punishment from no ipad for one day, no ipad for two days, no ipad for a week etc etc - once the ipad is gone for a week what are you going to do if he is naughty again that week?

We used pocket money. Child starts with a pound or two at beginning of every week, loses 20p if they continue bad behaviour after a warning (ie being rude/cheeky), loses 50p if does something serious (ie hitting). Money is not given to the child until the end of the week. Money is never taken away once it has been given, it is always taken away from the following weeks money. As with any punishment it needs to be used sparingly and expectations need to be clearly set out. There is never any need to get angry, it needs to be done calmly and consistently.

he is 6 years old and has 3 younger siblings by different men in that short space of time. If you are such an expert in children then I am amazed you can’t see the very obvious reasons he is acting up.

This, I'm afraid.

Is this really an area you gained a degree in? And you work in now?

As your attributing much of his behaviour to him making active choices (saying he knows what's naughty so shouldn't do it etc) but he's had less attention than other children by being in a larger family, a lack of consistency with parental figures as men have appeared then disappeared, the introduction of children of various ages so he is acting out both in ways older and younger ones are because we 'learn' behaviours from all our siblings not just older ones and now he's in a situation with inconsistent parenting again.

Would she be willing to explore parenting classes? This is a parenting issue not a little boy issue, at this point.

Kids are cheeky sometimes and he's had a bloody tough start when it comes to interpersonal dynamics. It's up to parents to learn to manage the children they have as individuals, especially when they've had a confusing time.

Other posters have put it much better than I did.

He is not a naughty child, he is struggling and looking for attention. He has had so much upheaval in his short life and has no idea what stability even is - there is no way he can be getting adequate 1 on 1 time with his mum when he has 3 younger siblings plus older ones too.

I find it absolutely impossible to believe you are the expert you claim to be on child development and psychology. If you had that knowledge, you would know 'waiting 1 year' is nowhere near enough before adding to an already huge family. Also you should know getting what he wants in terms of Netflix and consoles is no substitute for stability.

You're focusing on consequences and a tablet but they are completely irrelevant right now.

I agree with you.

But I also agree that he is not your child. Therefore, it's not really your argument to get involved in.

Personally, I also thinkt that you are an idiot for getting involved with this family. Especially given how much of an expert you say you are in child psychology.

I am sure you know that behaviour is communication and no-one is listening to him, he has dealt with more comings and goings in his short life than he should've dealt with.

Our baby we waited over a year to have one, so our family unit was setup before hand.

fucking hell.

No wonder this poor child is acting up, he was already in an unstable environment with SIX siblings and within the space of a year has another man trying to play daddy and a seventh sibling on the way. I’m really surprised with your degree that you can’t see this.

@Bez2011 I too have a degree in psychology that featured heavily towards child development but (as any good psychologist or doctor will tell you) when it's your own family you can't approach it from that angle because you can't be objective.

That little boy has had a chaotic life. Three siblings in five years, a biological father who has no relationship with him, witnessing an abusive relationship that his mother became involved in when she couldn't have very long been out of the last entanglement - and then another new man and another sibling. What support and counselling was he given, following the abusive relationship? What support have all the children had?

The older children - are their fathers involved? Does he watch his other siblings get to build relationships with parents that he doesn't have? He is watching the youngest build a relationship that he won't get to have with his father and that must be very difficult. And I really can't see how he can get so much one on one attention, when there are three children younger than him requiring his mums time.

With your experience and work connections OP I would urge you to seek counselling and help for the family as a whole and this little boy in particular. This child has had no opportunity to build resilience, especially if he had two younger siblings by the time he was four and then a year of a new man moving in, playing dad and getting his mum pregnant again.