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How/when to begin discipline?

10 replies

LemonLemonLemon · 17/05/2021 18:55

I have a lovely 14m old boy. His comprehension of words is quite good, he can hand a specific person a specific item, or help me put dishes and toys away with verbal instructions, but I can’t seem to stop him being destructive.

He’s a very active baby and gets bored quickly, but also just enjoys loud noises, such as repeatedly slamming cupboards / oven door, banging toys into surfaces, shaking anything noisy. I try telling him no and physically remove him or redirect him, but can’t seem to stop him doing it again and again. Simply telling him ‘no’ doesn’t stop him, he has to be moved.

I’m assuming this is mostly normal toddler behaviour, but I’m just wondering when and how I can start expecting him to stop doing these things. Mainly to keep him safe and stop him destroying my house!

Any tips or advice would be gratefully received

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BonnyEm · 17/05/2021 19:00

It's just developmental behaviour. He's not being naughty, he is exploring. Get some pans out let him have a bash with wooden spoons.
Let him help you fill up empty milk cartons with rice etc. to use as shakers.
Turn it into constructive play

butterflycatcher · 17/05/2021 21:05

If you are on Instagram I'd highly recommend following the accounts transformingtoddlerhood, biglittlefeelings and janetlansbury. Some very thought provoking approaches and advice.

skkyelark · 17/05/2021 21:29

Mostly I agree with @BonnyEm – make sure his free access toys are things that can take bashing and let him bash away on the kitchen floor or whatever. Rice shakers are great because they are noisy, but a bit easier on adult ears than many options.

If he's very active, plenty of outdoor time as well.

That said, for things that are dangerous or seriously destructive, I think you can start implement very simple natural consequences at this age. If he ignores your 'no' and goes too near the oven, he goes in the high chair/behind the baby gate/whatever safe spot for a minute or so with a very brief explanation. He bashes something that can't take it, you take the toy away for a little bit, 'No, we don't bash the TV, it might break', and so on.

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BertieBotts · 17/05/2021 22:30

I have found it's really useful for me to categorise discipline as three distinct stages. You're fully in stage 1 now and you will be mostly here for a good while yet.

Stage 1 is about you deciding the boundaries and then controlling his environment - physically preventing them from being crossed, or redirecting him into the acceptable behaviour. It's not his responsibility to control his behaviour - he is a baby, and a lot of "behaviour" is really instinct or emotion or impulse, not consciously calculated. He will learn what is and isn't acceptable by you showing him and not allowing certain things, without any kind of shame, punishment, consequences. This stage requires a lot of supervision and close interaction to guide him into the behaviour you want/expect. It also requires a lot of empathy and understanding as he learns to navigate the world.

You'll be fully in this stage from about birth - 2 years and mostly in this stage until around 4-7 years old depending on the child. Elements of this may continue right into the preteen or early teenage years - you might restrict access to something like alcohol, install parental controls on their phone/computer or refuse to drive them to a certain place if it's not safe, so it's not a "baby" stage as such, it does go all the way through.

Examples of this might look like:
Blocking off dangerous parts of the house, e.g. using stairgates
Ensuring he is strapped into a safety seat in the car, even if he cries (using distraction perhaps)
Keeping things he could break or use to cause havoc out of reach e.g. pens, delicate books
Deciding when you are happy for him to have something like a dummy or bottle and taking it away or offering an alternative when you are not (e.g. in the middle of the night).
Offering a plate to put discarded food on, ending a mealtime if it's all going on the floor instead
Swapping a hard toy he is throwing for a soft foam ball, explaining that this is OK to throw
Blocking him from hitting or biting and encouraging use of a teething toy or high five instead
Using descriptive but extremely simple language such as "Hot" or "ouch" or "Not yours" rather than just "No" which isn't very specific.
From about 2 you can give more detail in explanations. But this is more to get into the habit of doing so. You also have to back it up with the action e.g. physically preventing, redirecting - the explanation/reasoning alone is NOT enough.

Sometimes you will find you're doing something in response to a behaviour that might feel like a consequence/punishment but the primary purpose of it should be to prevent the behaviour from happening. So for example, removing a toy that he is bashing you over the head with is consistent - removing a toy because he is shrieking in your ear is not. And when you do remove the toy, don't get hung up about making sure he "cares" and is upset - it doesn't matter, because the object of removing the toy is not to punish but to prevent. He might well be upset, but deal with that as a separate issue. He might simply move onto something else and that is fine.

Good resources for this stage:
How To Talk So Little Kids Will Listen (book)
Janet Lansbury Unruffled (website/podcast)
Big Little Feelings (instagram)

Stage 2 is about children learning to take responsibility for their own actions and learn about consequences. So you set the boundaries, and there are consequences for crossing them, or you simply don't prevent the natural consequence. This is the most familiar stage to a lot of people, but I think people often start it too early or go really heavy on it very early on when Stage 1 is still appropriate for a lot of situations. If you're regularly finding yourself stuck in a battle, try looking back at the problem through a Stage 1 lens: How would you approach it if you assume your child is not able to control their urge to do this yet? Particularly in the earlier stages of Stage 2.

IMO, consequences should never be something scary or that the child can't handle, so I wouldn't use physical pain or shouting at them in an intimidating way or removing a comfort toy or threatening something like a toy going away forever. It's OK for them to be boring or unwanted - that's kind of the point. It's very good for them to be related (You are being too hyper around the TV: TV goes off) or restorative (You make a mess: You clean it up) or a natural consequence (You refuse to wear a coat: You feel cold), sometimes this isn't possible or safe - use common sense.

You would talk a lot about reasons and what might happen if something isn't followed. Not in a threatening way - just in a linking cause and effect way. Encouraging the opposite/positive behaviour is also a really important part of this stage. So for example instead of framing behaviour as a negative instruction (Don't run, don't spit food, don't shout) think about what you actually want and ask for that instead (We need to walk near a road so we can be safe / If you don't like that, put it discreetly in this napkin / Can you take a deep breath and ask me calmly, please) and if there are recurring unwanted behaviours, making a mental note of what the opposite is/what the behaviour you expect/want is, and trying to catch that happening and praise/reward it, rather than ignoring it because it's not annoying, which is really easy to do - kids playing up at the dinner table get more (negative) attention than kids eating quietly and nicely, but it's important to notice and praise those good mealtimes, because negative attention is better than no attention.

Stage 2 can start in a very basic way around age 2, but properly becomes the dominant stage from about age 4-5. Again it goes right the way through although you do need to stop being reliant on it by the time the DC leave home!

Good resources for this stage:
123 Magic (book)
How To Talk So Kids Will Listen And Listen So Kids Will Talk (book)
The Whole-Brain Child (book)
(I'm a bit rusty with this bit - there are probably more up to date ones)

Stage 3 is about young people learning to set their own boundaries and decide their own morals. You don't set the boundaries any more - you collaborate and problem solve because at some point they need to move into this stage themselves.

What this looks like is: When you have a problem (say child does not do their agreed upon chores without loads of nagging) you discuss it with the child, each bring your concerns to the table, and decide together on a mutually agreeable solution. For example perhaps they will agree on a set time to do the jobs, or the problem is that they don't know which jobs they are supposed to do, so swapping to a set specific one that doesn't change may help.

It's very far off for you, but some children start to be able to use problem solving and collaboration in certain situations from around age 4-6, some need to be older, but it can have surprising results even with very young children. It's worth bringing this in as much as possible as early as possible IME, because it makes for a happier house with fewer arguments and fights, as well as helping them become more independent and thoughtful.

Of course there will be issues that you need to pull rank and absolutely prevent (Stage 1) or strongly discourage (Stage 2) for some time as you will not always be in agreement with your child, they will not always be emotionally or mentally developed enough to see the point in a boundary and so you sometimes need to say actually no, I'm the parent for this one and it's my job to keep you safe/make sure you get enough sleep/eat properly/go to school (etc).

Good resources for this stage:
How To Talk So Kids Will Listen And Listen So Kids Will Talk (book)
Raising Human Beings (book)
Family meetings (general concept of parenting)

BertieBotts · 17/05/2021 22:40

Also in Stage 1 is understanding the reasons behind behaviour - looking up play schemas can help a lot with this. He wants to make a noise because he's learning about cause and effect and how different things sound (the foundation for learning about the properties of materials, although he won't understand that quite yet!)

You can't really stop him/it isn't reasonable to want him not to make any noise - he is just a toddler exploring his environment, which is how he is learning. But you can reframe it for yourself as him exploring and learning rather than being naughty, destructive or annoying, and you can redirect him to items which make all different kinds of noises but perhaps are less irritating noise for you, or won't be damaged by being shaken and bashed. At his age he will not be able to differentiate between something that is robust and designed to be played with vs something which is delicate and will be damaged by this type of play, so you have to do that part for him and restrict his access to anything which will be damaged.

LemonLemonLemon · 18/05/2021 07:39

Thanks all. I totally understand it’s normal development and I don’t view it as naughty (keep reminding myself of that as he digs up my plants!). We are out as much as possible and he has lots of access to toys.

I will follow the suggested accounts on Instagram and keep consistent with moving him away etc.

Thanks all

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Sideofnoreturn · 19/05/2021 21:46

@BertieBotts what a helpful post! I’m not the OP but found it really useful for dealing with my 3 year old who is definitely more in stage 1 than I probably realise.

BertieBotts · 20/05/2021 11:37

Ah, thanks :)

Gingeranimals · 20/05/2021 13:20

@BertieBotts came on here to say exactly the same as @Sideofnoreturn! Must confess to having copied it for future reference Smile

BertieBotts · 20/05/2021 13:28

It helped me a lot to break it up like that.

I find a lot of "gentle parenting" resources (which always appealed to me) expect you to skip straight from Stage 1 to Stage 3.

And a lot of general parenting resources ignore both Stages 1 and 3 and exist solely in Stage 2.

There is a need for all three, just at different points of the child's life. But depending on the issue the age to switch stages/approaches really varies, as well as their temperament and development, which will be different for every child. That's why I found it helpful to think of it like three steps because you'll go through all of them eventually.

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