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Original poster

Sleep training help

44 replies

Scotabroad24 · 15/05/2021 09:32

I know this subject has probably been done to death so sorry in advance.

My 5 month old DS used to be a great sleeper, slept through the night from 8-7 from around 6 weeks old. Went down into his next2me drowsy but awake and got himself off to sleep.
Fast forward to around 4 months, suddenly he couldn't get himself to sleep, and I started rocking him to sleep in my arms, putting him down fast asleep. Now he is waking 6/7 times a night, at the end of each sleep cycle it seems and can't get back to sleep so either me or DH are having to go in and rock him, replace dummy etc. its taking longer and longer each time.
If it makes any difference he isn't a great napper either, he has one nap in his cot where again I rock him to sleep, then the rest are usually in his pram whilst we are out and about so the movement gets him to sleep (he only naps about 20/30 mins 3 times a day usually)

DH will soon be going onto nightshift and we really need to try and get his sleep sorted before I lose my mind with exhaustion.
Has anyone tried sleep training? Any advice for a FTM? Different methods? I really am against the cry it out method but could maybe deal with controlled crying... I think Confused

OP posts:
MotherPiglet · 15/05/2021 10:06

It sounds like hes struggled with the 4 month sleep regression. Sleep is normally affected when they're going through a leap and learning a new skill I.e sitting up, rolling, crawling etc.

Does he sleep in your room? Have you tried white noise?

I never sleep trained my almost 3yo and am currently pregnant with my second so dont have any advice on that front but each phase will pass. Hang on in there.

bleachblondemom · 15/05/2021 10:53

I did Ferber method (controlled crying). Within a day DS was going to sleep independently in his crib for all naps and at bedtime. Also went cold turkey with his dummy so he soothes himself back to sleep and doesn’t need me to put his dummy in several times a night.
I read that these changes at 4 months mean habits like waking frequently for a dummy, needing to be rocked to sleep in a pram etc, become more ‘permanent’, so I nipped it in the bud.
I got a lot of shit for it on here but I don’t care, me and DS are both happy and well rested :)

Chickenlickeninthepot · 15/05/2021 10:58

It's the 4 month sleep regression - it'll pass. It's horrible but it passes. You've had a pretty good start and it's a bloody big shock when it goes wrong. I had exactly the same thing with my eldest. Like PP, I'd try white noise and it gets easier once they can put the dummy back in themselves.

They really don't recommend sleep training before 6 months - we did CC at 10 months when I couldn't cope with how long it was taking to get DS off to sleep and then gradual retreat at 2.5yo because we had the same problem again.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

3-6 months old Babies & sleep Children's sleep Families
becca3210 · 15/05/2021 19:39

www.littleones.co/blogs/our-blog/when-good-sleep-turns-bad-navigating-the-4-month-sleep-regression

This will help explain the four month sleep regression. Your little one needs practice to go to sleep by themselves (in cot awake) otherwise when they finish a sleep cycle they will wake up and want what they are used to rocking etc. to get back to sleep. I know it feels impossible (my little one was like that) but they will get there in time.

Are they in their own room? We did sleep training at 6 months (gradual retreat) where we put DS down awake in cot and stayed with him till he went to sleep. First few nights we stayed right by the cot - verbally comforting him, stroking him (picked up if helped to calm him but tried not to). After a few nights we moved our chair further away and did the same - in cot awake stayed till he fell asleep. Verbally reassured stroked etc but didn't pick up. After a few nights you can move further to the door or out of the room. This worked a treat for us.

Also - we left ten mins before intervening during the night to give him a chance to resettle independently. Sat in same place and used same strategies that we used to get him to sleep.

My terrible sleeper now sleeps through so although it seems impossible you will get there! Hope some of this helps

Crowsaregreat · 15/05/2021 20:06

He's learned that being rocked is how he goes to sleep.

Original poster
Scotabroad24 · 16/05/2021 07:45

@bleachblondemom

I did Ferber method (controlled crying). Within a day DS was going to sleep independently in his crib for all naps and at bedtime. Also went cold turkey with his dummy so he soothes himself back to sleep and doesn’t need me to put his dummy in several times a night. I read that these changes at 4 months mean habits like waking frequently for a dummy, needing to be rocked to sleep in a pram etc, become more ‘permanent’, so I nipped it in the bud. I got a lot of shit for it on here but I don’t care, me and DS are both happy and well rested :)
Hi!! I remember you from the induction thread! We must have given birth within a few days of each other if i remember rightly! Ive been reading about the ferber method and think me and DH have agreed its what we will try beginning tonight. Did it really only take a day for your DS? Did you apply the method at night and for naps in the same day? I wasnt sure whether to move his usual cot nap to his pram for the first few days or if its better to jump in with both feet straight away 😐
OP posts:
Original poster
Scotabroad24 · 16/05/2021 07:50

We just moved him into his own room a few days ago because he seems to be such a light sleeper.. he was getting disturbed when i went to bed and when DH came in a few hours later. Im quite a restless sleeper and noticed he was waking when i was tossing and turning. Although the frequent wake ups have been happening for a good month or so, so not connected to moving rooms

OP posts:
BuffaloCauliflower · 16/05/2021 07:58

Please don’t do this to your child. Their waking is biologically normal and leaving them to cry for you is cruel and unnecessary. 4 month sleep regressions are common and normal. Needing parental help and comfort to fall asleep is normal. You wouldn’t do ‘walking training’ you accept they learn in their own time, why do with sleep? Frequent night waking protects them from SIDS. Their brains are 25% the size of ours, they cannot reason why you’re not coming for them. Please don’t train them to think you won’t come and comfort them. I know it’s hard when they wake a lot, but it’s not fair to have a baby and then punish them for sleeping like a baby.

You might find this video helpful. I’d also recommend The Gentle Sleep Book by Sarah Ockwell-Smith

BuffaloCauliflower · 16/05/2021 08:02

In fact not even might - this video is really helpful for learning about babies sleep, do give it a watch

becca3210 · 16/05/2021 08:34

Isn't it great though if a child doesn't need parental input to go to sleep and can go to sleep independently? Obviously you wouldn't leave a child to cry for long or to get really distressed but if you always run straight in how will they learn to settle independently and that their cot is a safe place? I understand we all have different views I just don't want the OP to feel guilty for trying to improve their sleep. My child is so happy now that he is getting a full night sleep rather than waking up every hour/two hours and sleep is so important for their development

BuffaloCauliflower · 16/05/2021 08:46

@becca3210 it makes no sense that biologically normal sleep for a baby would hinder their development. This is sleep training propaganda talk. If 10 hours solid sleep was necessary for cognitive development we’d have evolved to do that, but we haven’t, babies have evolved to wake frequently and feed frequently in the night. The best way to improve parental sleep is to respond to the baby’s natural need to be close to you, sleep with them and help them go back to sleep quickly. Not put them in another room and train them not to call out for you. Plenty of research showing sleep training doesnt help them sleep better it just stops them calling for you.

BuffaloCauliflower · 16/05/2021 08:52

And ‘self settling’ or self soothing is developmentally impossible for a baby, around age 4 it starts to become possible. They need to be soothed to learn how to soothe themselves, not left alone. So much misinformation out there about baby development.

Original poster
Scotabroad24 · 16/05/2021 09:13

I understand what you're saying buffalocauliflower... but my DS is miserable most of the day because he doesn't nap well and is awake most of the night. I would never ever leave him to cry it out completely.. i will always go back and comfort him at intervals just think not picking him up and rocking him will make a difference.

Im also worried about returning to work and him being in day care or at my DMs , neither of them will constantly rock him to sleep, so it seems a positive if he can self settle to a degree. My hope is it makes his days happier if he isnt constantly over tired and grumpy.

OP posts:
BuffaloCauliflower · 16/05/2021 09:30

Have a look at Possums sleep programme, which can help support sleep without training.

The difference is physical touch is a very different thing for a baby than speaking to them, they don’t comfort them in the same way. Don’t worry about when you go back to work, I’ve had the same concerns but babies learn to go to sleep differently with different people and in different situations. A good day care would be happy to rock him though, if that’s what he needs.

becca3210 · 16/05/2021 09:34

Yes I agree if a baby is very upset they will find it hard to self-soothe without adult input. However, it is certainly possible for a child of 5/6 months to learn to learn to re-settle themselves when they wake between sleep cycles. When my child wakes in the night briefly he now isn't upset he just turns over and goes back to sleep as he doesn't need me to assist him.

I do think though it is each to their own and if a parent and child choose to co-sleep and are happy and well-rested that's great. I just feel strongly that people who decide to do some gentle training shouldn't be made to feel guilty for this.

I don't want to derail the thread so just will finish by wishing @Scotabroad24 the best of luck!

DarcyLewis · 16/05/2021 09:36

Having worked in a nursery baby room it's a nightmare when babies start unable to get themselves to sleep and yes we gently train them to fall asleep alone. It's much harder for them to have to adjust to day care and learn to sleep all at the same time, they settle better if they can already get themselves to sleep. Rocking to sleep isn't practical when you have multiple babies.

OP as well as controlled crying you could look at the baby whisperer's techniques. You basically ssh and pat them to sleep in the cot instead of rocking, pick them up only if they get very upset but put them down again before they fall asleep in your arms. Yes, there is some crying as they are having to learn a new way of getting to sleep, but they don't get left alone.

MaMaD1990 · 16/05/2021 09:52

It sounds like he is in the middle of the 4 month sleep regression, usually tails off after about 6 weeks but if you've been rocking him to sleep, he'll be expecting that once the regression is over with. I used the supernanny timed controlled crying with mine and within a couple of days DD was going to sleep as she used to. You put them down to sleep and leave them to cry for 2 mins, go back in to settle but no picking up, talking or eye contact, just rubbish their back or tummy for comfort. Leave the room and then wait 4 mins. You double the time each time you go in (so 2 mins, 4 mins, 8 mins etc) until they sleep. In an ideal world no parent would leave their kid to cry but in reality it's just not possible and they need to learn this skill, it's not cruel and you'd be doing them a disservice if you didn't teach them to sleep independently (especially as yours did this before!).

MaMaD1990 · 16/05/2021 09:53

Rub their back or tummy, not rubbish!

BuffaloCauliflower · 16/05/2021 09:58

@MaMaD1990 why is it not possible? I’ve never needed to leave my child to cry when I could physically get to them. Needing to teach them to sleep is frankly bollocks, it’s a biological need not a skill. Do you think for thousands of years humans just never slept before someone invented sleep training practices?

MaMaD1990 · 16/05/2021 10:07

[quote BuffaloCauliflower]@MaMaD1990 why is it not possible? I’ve never needed to leave my child to cry when I could physically get to them. Needing to teach them to sleep is frankly bollocks, it’s a biological need not a skill. Do you think for thousands of years humans just never slept before someone invented sleep training practices?[/quote]
It's not possible for many reasons personal to each individual. If you've never felt the need to sleep train, good for you, crack on. The OP has asked for advice on sleep training and you're coming on here to brand her as cruel and trying to force your beliefs down her throat when she's made up her mind on what will work best for her family. Perhaps start your own thread voicing your opinions on the best sleeping practices for babies for those who want it instead of trying to start an argument with people actually answering the OP with useful information that she's requested.

BuffaloCauliflower · 16/05/2021 10:14

My advice was learn about normal baby sleep instead of pathologising it, and Possums sleep programme to optimise normal baby sleep patterns. Cry it out and sleep training methods are not an essential part of parenting, any more than smacking a child to discipline them is essential.

MaMaD1990 · 16/05/2021 10:18

@BuffaloCauliflower

My advice was learn about normal baby sleep instead of pathologising it, and Possums sleep programme to optimise normal baby sleep patterns. Cry it out and sleep training methods are not an essential part of parenting, any more than smacking a child to discipline them is essential.
Again, completely irrelevant and not what the OP was asking advice about. Your advice, quite frankly is useless here.
BuffaloCauliflower · 16/05/2021 10:23

Why is it irrelevant? Both are ways to better understand sleep and work with babies biology to get more sleep for everyone, without trying to train them into something unnatural? The OP is tired and wants a way to feel less tired, I have a 6mo I get it, but the answer doesn’t have to be sleep training.

MaMaD1990 · 16/05/2021 10:31

@BuffaloCauliflower

Why is it irrelevant? Both are ways to better understand sleep and work with babies biology to get more sleep for everyone, without trying to train them into something unnatural? The OP is tired and wants a way to feel less tired, I have a 6mo I get it, but the answer doesn’t have to be sleep training.
It's irrelevant because she's asked for advice on sleep training, which in her opinion is the best way for her family to get sleep. You have zero insight into Op's life and its laughable that you think you know better than her. None of your advice is sleep training focused, its the complete opposite. It's like posting on a thread that is asking for vegan recipes and then posting a bunch of meat based recipies and then arguing with everyone that they're cruel and talking bollocks (especially people who haven't even asked for your opinion)... I'm not quite sure what you're aren't understanding.