Mystery thrashing?

[HenrysHome]

Happy Easter! Help needed from the mumsnet hive mind for one exhausted mummy. Every night since my little boy was around two months old, he tosses and turns in the early hours (used to be around 4am onwards) and appears to be in a very light sleep. This wasn't so bad when I could try and block it out and doze through it. Now he's six months and gradually the tossing and turning has crept earlier and earlier and has got more and more intense, to the point where he'll wake himself up multiple times a night unless I'm shhhing, patting, cuddling etc. Last night he started at 10pm, thrashed around until 1 where he woke up despite my best efforts, had a wide awake party until 3 then slept until 5 when he wakes for the day normally anyway. I am EXHAUSTED. Any ideas what's going on? I've already tried:

Extra winding /probiotics/ dentinox
Dream feeding/ not dream feeding
Bottle in the night/ no bottle in the night
Co-sleeping/ own room/ next to me
Sleeping bag on/off
Different combinations of baby grows and vests to see if he was hot/cold
Early bedtime (5.30) / late bedtime (8)
Dummy/ no dummy
Lots of daytime sleep/ little daytime sleep
Tilted cot/ flat cot
Medicine in the am/lunchtime/pm
Early dinner/ late dinner/big dinner/ small dinner
White noise
Nappy change/ no nappy change

He's been on omeprozole for 4 months which we are gradually weaning off (20mg down to 5mg at the moment) and was suspended cmpa but recently passed the milk challenge (formula fed) if that makes any difference.

Any ideas???

Hi @HenrysHome so sorry you are feeling so tired. My little boy went through a stage of this as well. He was still always asleep but thrashing around like crazy. I think it was during his light sleep cycles. But we used to notice it more from his last night feed around 4am....
How old is your son now? I don’t have any advice other than we used to pick him up to settle him back down and then pop him back in his crib just to calm him, We moved him from his Moses basket as we thought that was part of the problem as he was hitting his arms and he seemed to stop once he went into a bigger Next to me Crib xx

Thanks for your reply @KCN2020. He's six months now! We tried putting him.in his larger sized cot in his room.for the first part of the night (where he usually sleeps fine) but found he wouldn't settle so he's in his bassinet which he's way too big for but he seems to like the cosiness. We tried bringing the bassinet into our room later on in the night but he would thrash around in there just the same 😱

Bizarre of a notion as this sounds, it sounds like Restless Leg Syndrome, which I've never heard of in a baby!

I'd be getting bloods done. Particularly ask for Magnesium to be checked.

You're also experimenting too much I would say. I would try to be more consistent with the 'least worse' option.

You also mention both dream feeding (which is I presume breastfeeding?) and bottles. You're doing all sorts of different things with him. What sort of probiotics are you giving a 6 month old? Are they safe for babies?

Can you read the leaflet that came with the omeprazole and see what the side effects are?

Can you take him off the omeprazole and see if things improve after about 5 days?

www.babysleep.com/sleep-advice/what-is-restless-legs-syndrome-rls/#:~:text=Symptoms%20of%20RLS%20may%20start,type%20of%20blood%20iron%20level).

Does any of that ring a bell?

That article suggests low ferritin.

Am I correct that he's not crying or in pain, but just thrashing about as you call it? Fine when you lift him up and he's able to move?

I know that it is an utterly unusual suggestion, little is known about RLS in adults even, but it is now becoming listed more and more as a side effect of some medication. Previously it wasn't even known as a side effect as people find it hard to describe.

Hi @ismiseeire, thanks for your responses. We've tried all the above over a period of about 4/5 months, some for longer than others. Dream feeding is when you feed the baby without waking them up before you go to bed so that they don't wake for milk soon after you fall asleep. When I feed him in his sleep at 9pm, he won't want a bottle until morning usually, whereas if I go to sleep, he'll wake himself around 10.30pm for a bottle. Sometimes he'll take one around 2am too but not always. He was on optibac for babies to help with the constipation caused by the cmpa, which has now sorted itself out, although he does seem very windy in the early mornings some days. We have to slowly wean him off the omeprozole since going cold turkey can mess with the levels of stomach acid and cause a rebound. He's not crying and usually settles completely or a marked reduction in 'thrashing' when picked up/ cuddled. I'll look into RLS thanks for suggesting!

Swaddling? Or tucking in tight using a blanket across the cot and under the mattress

You say he stops thrashing when picked up, so it’s a laying flat issue. My DD is similar, and it’s usually wind or her reflux causing it.

@solittletime he's too old to be swaddled if I understand correctly, will try a blanket tucked tight though that's a good idea! Not sure if it's a laying flat issue @Vicky1989x as he sleeps flat the first half of the night and for naps fine, and his next to me has always been tilted on the max tilt and then more with a towel under the mattress

@HenrysHome out of curiosity what are his daytime naps like, like your routine?

My little boy is on omeprazole and is exactly the same. Thrashes about, his head goes from side to side, his arms go up to his face and then he wakes himself up. He is 5 months old. He cries too. Some nights he can self settle but more often than not he needs the dummy put in and we hold both his hands down and stroke them until he falls back to sleep! On a bad night he does it 15 times last night I had to settle him 5 times. I feel your pain! I'm just going with it and hoping he grows out of it!!!!

@Vicky1989x, he wakes around 5.15, nap 1 around 7 for 30-60 mins, nap 2 is usually longest around 9-10/10.30, naps again in the pram/car seat when we're out and about for the day, last nap around 3/4 depending on what we've been doing, asleep in bed 6.30/7ish. I'm wondering if he's getting too much daytime sleep. I know they say sleep breeds sleep but I've tried encouraging longer day naps and it hasn't had an impact really so wondering about capping them

@HenrysHome it could be the naps causing it! I’d try dropping to 3 naps and extending his wake windows slightly. At 6 months my DD could do 2.5-3 hours between sleeps.

@Vicky1989x I've tried extending his wake windows but he can only last about 1h40 before he gets super mad

@HenrysHome probably because his nighttime sleep is so poor. I’d try extend them slowly each day, even if he’s mad, keep him distracted.. so first day try extend them by 10 minutes and then up it each day etc. You might only have to do that for one day so that he gets 1 good nighttime sleep and then he’ll be able to stay awake longer the following day. That worked for my DD when I dropped from 4 to 3 naps, but all babies are different!

Just wondering if OP sees this and can let me know how it panned out as I have a baby who is doing exactly the same!

@Piggieintgemid please tell me things have improved for you 😭 Our 4.5 month old is still throwing legs around/active sleeping

@CM327509 I'm actually lolling that I ever wrote this and don't remember doing it so that is testament to how much sleep deprivation drives you insane. I don't recall when my daughter stopped doing this exactly but by 6 months it was plain sailing and she's been grand ever since (she's a year on Tuesday.) We've had bad periods of course, awful times, but fundamentally it's OK. We made it. I was demented for a while and this is my second baby so even though I knew it got better I still was demented with the sleep situation. My advice is this, it will stop, it will end, you will sleep again and don't be afraid to cosleep or do whatever you can to get rest, I promise it doesn't create bad habits.I PROMISE. Just put rest first and get it anyway you can.

@CM327509 also I do think a lot of it was digestive/reflux related and as that settled so did everything else. Weaned her off omeprazole around 7 months when solids were very established and its so been so much better since.

@Piggieintgemid lying here at 3am with my 7 month old and so pleased to get to the end of this thread and read someone saying things got better with their thrashing around baby! Of course he’s asleep on my chest now and there’s zero thrashing.. but put him down and the legs start bash bash bash!! I’m tried.