4 year old tantrums at nursery

[SnufkinsSong]

Hi everyone, just wondering if anyone has had a similar experiences with their 4 year old at nursery or has any ideas of what we can do.

DD is at the same nursery she has been at since she was 2 but obviously ha experienced same Covid disruption as everyone else. She has always been a bit of a drama queen, very articulate, adventurous, independent but equally really attached to me and her Dad (DH). We've had our share of tantrums, including some violent behaviour but always set clear boundaries, good routine, reflect back her feelings and talk about them. And on the whole, the tantrums have faded away and she is getting better at saying 'I feel sad' or ' you are making me cross' when she doesn't like something. She is also really good at managing her little sister who is 2 (distracting her, walking away, asking for help) and challenging in her own way.

The problem is nursery, when she is asked to do something she doesn't want to do she is still throwing huge tantrums, screaming, kicking, throwing chairs etc. She gets sent to the Head's office and we've received letters home about her behaviour. I've explained her behaviour is unacceptable, we've talked about what she should do instead. I've talked to nursery about the strategies we have used but she is still getting so stressed and furious. What can I do? She starts school in September and I want her enjoy it not spend her time getting in to trouble. She has a loving supportive home and is a happy little girl but just seems to need to fight the system every step of the way!

When she gets in trouble at nursery, what actions are taken at home?
Maybe losing treats, time outs at home etc are the way forward. Throwing chairs and screaming at age four is quite extreme, a talk about behaving better just may not be cutting it. She's at an age where she should know better now, I think you're going to have to come down a little harder on her.

Thanks for replying. Not much beyond explaining how disappointed we are when she's usually very tearful and apologetic. I have thought about saying no tv on a bad report day but everything I've read says that they are still too young to link their actions earlier in the day with a later punishment. I agree, it is extreme behaviour which is why I'm worried.

What happens when you say no to her at home? Even basic things like her favorite cup isn’t available and she has to have the green cup? Or do you automatically find the pink cup because you know she’ll kick off?

Do you like the nursery in general OP? Do you think they are good at behaviour management?

The reason I ask is that this is quite unusual! It's much more common for kids to behave well at nursery and act up at home. That's why I'm wondering if the nursery is at fault here. If so, things may be different when she starts school.

Is there any pattern in the time of the day that the meltdowns happen at nursery? Could it be that she’s overtired, is there an option to shorten her days somewhat?

@PenguinBarnotBird

Is there any pattern in the time of the day that the meltdowns happen at nursery? Could it be that she’s overtired, is there an option to shorten her days somewhat?

She's starting school in September, so shortened days possibly not going to help for the transition to school x

Most of the time now she accepts no at home, though I usually have to explain why. So you can't have the pink cup because its dirty, your sister has it- fine.
We do have tears and strops sometimes when she doesn't want to get dressed, brush her teeth, wants something different for dinner, etc. But it doesn't get her what she wants so it usually ends after a couple of minutes. Nothing like the behaviour at nursery, though we did go through a tantrum phase at home maybe 5 months ago.

@TigerBeetle Nursery is fine, quite big and busy. I do worry she might find it overwhelming. It's hard to know, because we do pick up at the door and sometimes its only the receptionist who brings them out and she doesn't know what's happeed during the day.
I know its unusual, I read an article saying that tantrums at nursery meant she was more comfortable expressing herself there than at home which made me feel awful.

@imalmostthere Yes I agree. She's there 9-4pm so not too far off a school day.

I think sending a 4 y.old to the heads office is very extreme. To be honest I would also be looking at what are nursery doingto support her at the moment. My son is the same age and their topic at the moment is emotions so the whole class talk about feeling blue, yellow, green or whatever. She is far too young for sanctions at home due to behaviour at nursery. She will not associate them at all. Does she have a key worker you can speak to?

Is she bored? My son was older (over 5)but he behaved very well until the term before school (though his "bad" behaviour wasn't anywhere near as extreme) and they dealt with it in nursery/spoke to me but said essentially he's bored and needs to start school.

@Cheesybiscuits01 Thanks for saying that, she is my first and I worry I'm being a bit precious about her. They send these letter home saying she has lost her playtime and that the behaviour will be marked down on her permanent record- it does seem a lot of pressure for a small child. Those are the kinds of strategies we use at home, which have seemed to be very effective- your nursery sounds great. She has a key worker who I have spoken to numerous times but we seem to be going round in circles. Maybe I need to set up another formal meeting to go over again what strategies they are actually using.

@Wurrg That's interesting and I hope that's the case. Was your son OK once he got to school?

I'm surprised at those saying they won't associate sanctions at home with behaviour at nursery. Mine started getting a bit physical/pushy at nursery and he seemed to understand that he could only watch TV in the evening if he used his kind hands all day. He was 2 at the time.

Yes, he's absolutely fine at school - 8 now.

Permenant record? Lost playtime. I do verge on the more gentle side of parenting but I would not be happy with that strategy at all!

Have nursery looked at what leads up to this behaviour?
Being sent to the head and losing playtimes is pretty odd for nursery, distraction might be better

If she's only 4 and volatile I doubt that she'd even remember what her punishment was for if you withheld a treat at home as well as at nursery. And young children need to have time to run around and let off steam, taking away her playtime is not going to help her behaviour!
I think @Opticabbage is very lucky if their 2 year old could even remember as far back as just before home time, let alone remembering at 6pm what happened at 9.10 am.
I would expect a good nursery to be talking about feelings and how we know what we are feeling, too.

I think she is sent to the Head because she is kicking and flinging herself around so is potentially a danger to other children. She actually seems to like it, as she says 'its quiet and [the Head] has calming toys'. Its usually when transitioning from one activity to another, so having to stop doing something she is enjoying. I think they try to give her notice, but I can imagine when managing a lot of children its difficult to do it consistently.

Is this a school nursery? How many days is she doing ? Will she remain in the school in September ?

She sounds tired, honestly she will grow up loads before September and will be eased into School.

Personally I would consider dropping her down to a few mornings. Nursery always blah blah this stamina business, but kids adapt and will always be tired out by change. I've seen kids not cope with school that have done 9-6 M-F in a day nursery.

Throwing chairs is unacceptable and her going to play with other toys with the head is rewarding that behaviour. I suggest they request a member of staff or head stand with her for a time out in the corridor not let her play. This needs to be treated properly. Speak to them about it. Also ask if they have concerns if she has any additional needs and then maybe speak to your GP.

@timewilltellsontrushit Yes school nursery. We're waiting to find out in April, this is our second choice for lots of reasons. That's interesting about reducing the time, she was actually only doing 2 mornings when I was on maternity leave and only went to 2 full days when the nursery reopened in September. I'm working now and would struggle to reduce her time, my lovely in-laws already help out a day a week but more than that would be too much for them.
I agree, she is not respecting the staff or the other children. They have a thinking chair (effectively time out) but its still in the room and she will not sit on it! I think taking her out of the situation is the best course, but yes maybe make it less fun. I have additional needs in mind, she struggles with busy, noisy environments.

Thanks all, I don't have many people to talk to about this (apart from DH) and it really helps to work through it all x

My DS went to nursery at a private school and it was very formal and run like school with sitting activities, assembly, very pushy on writing early. He hated it, but has thrived in reception this year at a different school. He has done well with reading and writing. He settled very quickly, only complaint lack of cuddles from the teacher. Don't panic yet, get the GP onboard just incase and see how it goes.

Ps the school my DS went to nursery at seemed awesome and was at a private school, but just not the right fit for him, they were negative about my school choice and suggested a different state school. I looked at it but I knew it wasn't right for him, too old fashioned.

Hi OP I know this is an old thread, but how did things turn out? I found this thread searching on topic as my 4yo son is the same in nursery. I have no idea what to do!