Consequences for bad behaviour at 5?

[MyCatHatesOtherCats]

What consequences do you use for bad behaviour in 5 year olds?

Specifically, I’d be interested to know what consequences you would deploy for deliberately weeing on the floor...

I think you're asking the wrong question. Maybe try 'why on earth did my 5-year old wee on the floor'?

Well, I’m asking myself that too! Obviously. He’s never done it before and was in the middle of a huge temper tantrum - but was quite aware of what he was doing, if that makes sense.

Sorry that came out snarky - it really wasn't meant that way! I do think it's the first question to ask though.

Did you make him clean it up? That would be the natural consequence.

I wouldn’t punish for that. It sounds like he lost control.

5 minutes of time on the naughty step with a stop clock showing 5 mins count down. Told they need to think about why they weed on the floor, how it made everyone else feel, how they now feel, whether it is something they will do again, given the repercussions. After 5 mins, a big hug and told you love them very much but you don't love when they wee on the floor.

That sounds like a complete loss of control (emotions not bladder). I'm not sure a punishment or consequence would really help that? What happened once they cal.ed down?

He would need to clean it up. Then a five minute time out to calm down and reflect. Then a chat(and an apology from him)about the tantrum and the wee on the floor.

@Laissonslesjoliesfemmes, sorry, it’s so easy to misinterpret tone online. Absolutely, he was in a rage and did it while eyeballing his dad, clearly looking to see what kind of reaction he might get.

@RandomMess, yes, absolutely - he was made to help me clean it up. I do generally favour natural consequences. His behaviour tonight was generally awful - he came in spoiling for a fight and was hitting me within 5 minutes because I said no to TV (as we were about to eat). It escalated from there. That made me wonder what discipline methods other parents use with their 5 year olds and whether we need to go beyond natural consequences and whether our expectations are age appropriate if you see what I mean.

Is this 2nd week back at school for him post lockdown?

So we try time out but he won’t stay in it. If made to stay somewhere to calm down, he tries to trash it. He seems to struggle to manage his feelings and that often spills into hitting and trying to damage things. At the point @MissyB1 describes, he wouldn’t necessarily be calm enough to listen to a chat or to reflect, and he would be too angry to apologise. This went on for about 1.5 hours tonight.

I have personally stepped away from non-natural consequences (punishments) as I found they made my DC behave worse. They understand the boundaries and my unhappiness is enough feedback. The impact on their behaviour has been spectacular.

Yes, it’s second week back post-lockdown. He has struggled with lockdown but has also been in part-time on a key worker place and struggled with that too. So this is his second “normal” week back. He’s clearly exhausted and that’s obviously a factor but this isn’t an isolated incident and I’m struggling to work out what we can do to help him with difficult feelings.

I’m not a fan of being punitive - I don’t want to give that impression. But deliberately peeing all over the hall felt like a line was crossed tonight.

That sounds so familiar - punishments here were turning into an arms race neither of us could win. It made him distraught and I felt like a bully.

@Laissonslesjoliesfemmes, that’s really interesting - thanks for sharing. I am concerned that usual sanctions (eg screen time) may be making him angry and depriving him of a coping strategy.

I should stress that we only “punish” with non-natural consequences for violence or deliberate trashing of stuff.

Removal of iPad, or no treats that evening. If you don’t want to do that, then ask why he did it and tell him why it is wrong and hope he doesn’t do it again.

Ignore ignore ignore
And then talk about it later...
why, how did you feel, what did you think?

And then let them know why peeing is just not right on the floor.

I had this with my 2nd child....

He's lovely now , but we have a few broken doors😬

I found it really hard to make the shift. It seemed counter intuitive - like I'd be giving in or encouraging the behaviour - and I've read so much on here over the years about punishments. But deep down I knew it wasn't right. Maybe it works for some children but I'd have had to completely break my child to get it to work. That realisation meant something had to change. Have you come across the Aha Parenting site? It really helped me structure the change.

I would say he weed on the floor to get a reaction. The best way to deal with it is NOT to react emotionally. Perhaps ignore it while it's happening and then say oh dear you weed on the floor, please help me clean it up. If you make a big reaction it may encourage him to do it again - this happened with my son who used to deliberately wet himself.

Yes, I’m familiar with the Aha parenting site. Thanks anyway.

Normal sanctions are removal of TV time and treats. He doesn’t have an iPad and he doesn’t get that kind of screen time usually apart from in very fixed situations (at most maybe twice a week).

We have tried ignoring him but he then ramps up the behaviour to get our attention and we feel we have to intervene to prevent, say, him or his brother getting hurt or him breaking something that will be difficult/expensive to fix.

We’ve tried a star chart, which helps to a degree in terms of being a reminder that if he continues x behaviour, he will lose privileges. We do 5 minute warnings, we encourage him to name his feelings, we suggest alternatives when he feels cross to hitting others and trashing things (eg not ok to hit a person but he can hit the cushions). But it escalates so quickly that we aren’t able to help him check himself and calm down, if you see what I mean. He just goes from 0 to 120.

My middle child had a little phase of this at around 5. He was struggling to settle into school and I think he was looking for attention. He's 7 now and although he's not the easiest child, he doesn't do anything like this.

@TheVolturi, thank you - that is really reassuring. We think it is partly about attention - he has not found the arrival of his new sibling (over a year ago) easy, although he is mostly very loving towards him - he’s angry about sharing us and in particular me. He has struggled with lockdowns and Covid changes, especially around seeing extended family. And he’s a young summer-born who I think is struggling with the pressure of school. So he has had a lot going on but his behaviour is dominating family life to an extent that is not ideal.

If he feels threatened by the changes he is experiencing, his instinct may be to seek your attention in any way possible, because while he has your attention he knows he is safe.

I've been advised to use "emotional scaffolding" with my son to help bring him down from an outburst and help him learn to express his feelings in words.

Have you tried things like visual timetables?

So pictures of how the evening will go so no screen time as you're eating doesn't come as a shock?

Do it with him when he's calm. If he says he needs unwinding time perhaps 30 minutes after school screen time with a drink will be enough to have a calmer evening?

Also what about a tent/ beanbag? Somewhere he can go when he's annoyed to unwind. You have to allow him to dictate when he does but also he's ready to come out. (My own ds is autistic and he absolutely cannot engage until he is ready or it just Ramos up again and we get the hours of it like you describe).

Ross Greene the explosive child book is really good.

I also had a book I got off of Amazon called "the big book of feelings" where you work with the child through how they feel, what they can do when they feel that way etc. I'll try and find it and link here.

HotPenguin do you know of a good source to learn about emotional scaffolding please? I just had a quick Google but it all seemed quite education focused and theoretical. I'm intrigued by the idea though.