3 year old not potty trained for nursery!

[Trustynickname]

Hi all.
I'm not looking for Judgement, only advice.
My son turned 3 a few months ago, he's been going too the toilet for a poo by himself for a while now, but he's unable to wipe himself. And he also is not using the toilet too urinate, I keep him in just pants in the day and encourage him too go to toilet for a wee, but he will only use the toilet to wee if I place him on it a lot, but if don't he will just wet himself, he doesn't tell me he needs the toilet even though I'm encouraging him too. He only tells me if he needs a poo, but even then he sometimes mumbles and just holds his bum and I have to run him to the toilet.

He's due to start a school pre school in a few weeks and I'm so worried! Will they even take a non potty trained child on? I'm so worried about him being unable to communicate that he needs the toilet for a poo and I know that he wont for a wee.

I'm trying hard to train him still at this time, is there anything else I can do? Does any one have experience in this. Will a pre school change a pull up??

Thanks!

Can you phone up and let them know? Im pretty confident they will have dealt with this sort of thing often.

Yes they shouldn't be excluding based on continence. Of it's a private nursery then I guess they can set their own rules more but ime school nurseries are well set up with a proper baby change area etc

All kids take their own time to potty train and it's not at all unusual for a child to not be completely clean and dry in their pants by the age of 3 - it can take many years longer in the case of kids with SEN and even if there are no concerns in that direction for your DC, that means that nurseries and schools are not allowed to have policies that would be discriminating, excluding or disadvantageous for a child who isn't yet fully potty trained. Ask the nursery to give you full details of what they do in these situations. Certainly there are settings that will try to unreasonably insist that all 3 year olds should be fully capable of managing their own bowel and bladder situation at all times - these are not good places to send any child to. Steer clear of such places!

IME nurseries tend to take kids to the toilet on a pretty regular schedule to try even if they don’t express a need to go. They don’t expect three year olds to be fully aware of a full bladder when they’re engrossed in something else.

@SleepingStandingUp

Yes they shouldn't be excluding based on continence. Of it's a private nursery then I guess they can set their own rules more but ime school nurseries are well set up with a proper baby change area etc

I have found the opposite.

I have found private nurseries were fully geared up to assist 3plus year olds with toilet training. My son's old nursery were clear about that. They said 'we are early years professionals and personal care is part of our job.'
Where I am now, most children start school age three in the school nursery. Those school nurseries refuse to assist children with toileting. I volunteered in my son's nursery and was horrified when the TA refused to wipe the bum of a very young three year who clearly could not do it himself, telling him, ' its not my job'. I did it for him as I could not bear for him to be left and sent home with excrement on his body. I have a friend whose 3 year old daughter complains of getting poo on her hands when she does a poo at school and says she wipes it off on the walls. Another whose 3 year old son came home from school nursery with a full poo in his pants and a red bum.

I think the system here is disgusting. If schools do not want to do personal care they should not be taking in early years age children. Its as simple as that.

My son goes to a private nursery, he moved to the preschool room after he turned 3 and he was still having accidents - they cleaned him up without fuss. A few times he came home with a dirty bum and pants - clearly hadn't been helped to wipe himself after doing a poo - so I complained, they apologised and made sure to help him after that. He's just turned 4, doesn't have accidents but we do still help him to wipe after poos.

If you're concerned just ask the preschool but I think it should be part of their duty of care surely.

I do worry about this though, as PP said. The nursery I send my son to now has a pre-school attached to it (fairly large chain of nurseries + pre-schools on the south coast) and is really good. Its a potty training academy so they're well used to it.

However, my son will be going to a prep school and that has a pre-school attached to it. Im keen to send him to that as the older pre-school kids are well integrated with reception. They do seem less well set up for younger ones though. Im going to think hard about sending my son there at 3 and if hes ready.

So OP, I would phone as ask.

(I know I posted earlier but some posters made me consider things more)

I'd hope the pre-school will understand that many 3 year olds are not yet fully potty trained. Sounds like he's doing great with the poos so I'm sure the wees will follow soon- especially if he notices the other kids going to the toilet to wee in pre-school.

I have the opposite problem. My son has just turned 3 and does all his wees in the loo but downright refuses to poo anywhere except in his pull-up. Really hoping this changes soon!

It’s rare for pre-schools locally to take kids who haven’t been potty trained. One of the rules is usually that they should be fully dry for 6 months before they join unless there’s SEN. And if there’s an accident you often need to use someone reliable as a contact to go in and fix it as the teachers won’t.

"My son has just turned 3 and does all his wees in the loo but downright refuses to poo anywhere except in his pull-up."

We had this for ages but got there eventually. Hang on in there!

Local authority pre-schools are definitely more problematic than private nursery. Sometimes it’s because of a lack of changing facilities - most LA pre-schools don’t have these as standard. Sometimes it is a lack of staff - nurseries are generally better staffed. Some times it is staff attitudes - private nurseries have children of all ages and nursery nurses rotate across rooms, LA nurseries have “early years educators” who are less likely to be dealing with changing kids and TAs aren’t always there.

It is against all sorts of policies and guidelines for any nursery to refuse a place to a child who isn’t toilet trained. If your LA nursery refuses a place or makes it difficult for you, go up the chain to the Diversity and Inclusion officer, or to the education dept and make a big noise about it.

Kids get there at such different times and despite the fact that people want to make it a “lazy parent” issue, it really isn’t. A common trope is that kids are trained far later than they used to be, but mum was a playgroup co-ordination back in the 80s and recalls there were loads of children who weren’t trained back in the day and they always had kids who needed a change of clothes. The only difference is, the market realised that having bigger disposable nappies and things like pull ups solved a problem. Because these are available now and weren’t then, this is being seen as a problem with today’s parenting.

I teach in a nursery attached to a primary school and it’s not uncommon for us to have children in nappies (although it’s usually pooing they refuse to do on the toilet so I guess it’s a bonus you have that cracked)! We just advise parents, once they’re ready to toilet train, to send plenty of spare clothes (and shoes). We usually have a little gang we regularly send to the toilet for a try! He’ll get there and inclusion-wise I’m sure they can’t refuse to take him x

@GrumpyHoonMain

It’s rare for pre-schools locally to take kids who haven’t been potty trained. One of the rules is usually that they should be fully dry for 6 months before they join unless there’s SEN. And if there’s an accident you often need to use someone reliable as a contact to go in and fix it as the teachers won’t.

The problem is SEN isn't always easy to identify and it might be caused by other undiagnosed medical issues so they're discriminating based on the child's additional needs. Not saying it doesn't happen, I had a friend who used to be called in to change her 4 yo if he had an accident

I think it very much depends on the nursery but like someone else said they can't discriminate. I work in a school nursery and we often have children start who aren't fully dry or even in nappies still, for us mostly it's a mix of SEN and not great parenting ( some don't send any spare clothes or nappies/wipes etc) . We are happy to support children and parents with this (ideally they would be dry , we have to staff a full time person on toileting which obviously takes staff away from the learning ) . School nurseries do have less staff as when there is a qualified teacher present the ratio is 1:13 whereas in private preschools without a teacher present the ratio is 1:8. Equally I find it awful when teachers or TAs refuse to support children with this although it doesn't happen at my school even into reception. Very much depends on the school .

My youngest is 3y7m and still isn't toilet trained. I tried in October and he just wasn't getting it. I gave up and will try as soon as the Easter break begins. It's not worth stressing about, they get there in their own time. Nurseries are equipped to deal with children who need help using toilets. They change nappies/pull ups.

My daughters pre school (attached to a primary) they made it clear they weren't there to toilet train the children in the welcome pack - saying the child had to be able to wipe themselves etc.
They would deal with the odd accident but not children who were not toilet trained at all.
When you have 20-30 kids in the class you can understand why

We didn't toilet train DD until age 3 but it was then a good 6 months until pre school started so had a good length of time to perfect it

Can you take some time off to really
Focus on it? I work full time so had to take annual leave and spend several days not leaving the house until we'd done it

In my experience, nurseries attached to schools aren't so willing to take on children who aren't fully trained. They are happy to deal with accidents, and will support you if your child isn't quite there yet. But they won't "do it for you". They just don't have the facilities or the staffing levels to dedicate to "from scratch" toilet training.