noisy child who doesn't behave

[cuboid]

I have a six year old. He's really noisy ( his voice in particular) so much so that two neighbours in the flat below have moved out. He also misbehaves a lot and really don't know how to control him. You can't smack a child anymore and I'm finding it difficult. I offer him two stories if he's well behaved which drops to one or zero if he misbehaves. If I put him in his bedroom to think about his behaviour he starts pushing things onto the floor. I feel he doesn't respect me and sees me more as his friend rather than a parent.

He calls me idiot. He throws his toothbrush etc etc. He's doing ok at school.

With his voice being noisy, have you ever suspected that he might have any hearing loss ?
Has he always been like this, or is just since Covid and lockdowns ?
Does dad live with you, if not does he see him ?
Do you have family nearby to help and give you a break ?
Have you discussed your concerns with school or the school nurse ?

@DinosaurDiana

With his voice being noisy, have you ever suspected that he might have any hearing loss ? Has he always been like this, or is just since Covid and lockdowns ? Does dad live with you, if not does he see him ? Do you have family nearby to help and give you a break ? Have you discussed your concerns with school or the school nurse ?

His hearing was tested and was ok, although I did worry it was affected by a dog barking near noisely when he was a baby. I wonder if the test picks up everything? He obviously isn't deaf, can hear me in another room.

His father often has him.

Always like this.

Been discussed with school. His spelling and reading is fine and he's not disruptive so are not going to refer him to child psychologist, but they have notice he acts a bit strangle- walks backwards and forwards and waves his arms and talks all the time.

So I think you need to contact school and insist that they push forward with the things they have noticed. Tell them that you are struggling with his behaviour and that you want him assessing.
If they don’t help you, you then contact the school nurse and inform them of your concerns and that school aren’t helping him.
In the mean time, do you get him out every day for a walk or to let off steam at the park ?
I know the weather isn’t great, but wrap up warm and get him out.

What are the triggers for the behaviour is he trying to avoid doing particular things?
Have you tried rewards for good behaviour rather than sanctions for bad?
What does he enjoy doing? Can you do an activity of his choice for ten minutes twice a day (this will give him a sense of control).

I recognise that lack of authority/ child thinks he is equal. In my case DS is autistic and he also speaks to teachers in the same way (no fear of answering back or getting the last word).

If nothing works of the above, I would speak to your GP and see if you can get a referral that way.

Not sure that withholding story time is an appropriate consequence to poor behaviour?

If I put my child in their room and they throw things, then once they are done 'Cooling off' I will help them tidy up the mess they made. Whilst tidying with them I can reinforce why they were sent to their room, and that it is not ok to trash their space. You have to enforce the rules whether their is a backlash or not. When my child shouts at me I try and respond calmly. "You can shout at me as much as you like but you're still not allowed x"
I used to think "I don't know how to get my DC to do what I want and I'm worried they will hurt me or break something" whereas now I think "my DC needs to do what I want, I am the grown up, Whatever their reaction is I will handle it because I am the one in control of this situation" You can't control their reaction but you can control your response to it and guide them towards living by the boundaries and rules that you have set. There have to be consequences, but when you shout (or smack) you lose your authority. When they are bringing the storm, it's time to bring the calm.

Can you define 'misbehaves'

What is he doing otherwise?

All behaviour is communication. What might he be trying to express? Does he feel pressured by expectations that he is developmentally unable to meet? Are your expectations of how a 6yo should behave realistic?

There is a concept called 'counterwill' that I've found really useful to learn about. Basically all humans have an instinct to do the opposite/fight back when they are told to do something: macnamara.ca/portfolio/the-surprising-secret-behind-kids-resistance-and-opposition/

Some resources that have really helped me with my children's behaviour are:
www.janetlansbury.com/
macnamara.ca
hneufeldinstitute.org/

Basically they all offer insight into why a child might behave a certain way and how we can deal with it in a constructive way that doesn't harm our relationships with them.

It's incredibly frustrating, I know. Being trapped in the house with kids who become easily enraged and are always talking in booming voices is enough is driving me mental too

@brokenkettle

All behaviour is communication. What might he be trying to express? Does he feel pressured by expectations that he is developmentally unable to meet? Are your expectations of how a 6yo should behave realistic?

There is a concept called 'counterwill' that I've found really useful to learn about. Basically all humans have an instinct to do the opposite/fight back when they are told to do something: macnamara.ca/portfolio/the-surprising-secret-behind-kids-resistance-and-opposition/

Some resources that have really helped me with my children's behaviour are:
www.janetlansbury.com/
macnamara.ca
hneufeldinstitute.org/

Basically they all offer insight into why a child might behave a certain way and how we can deal with it in a constructive way that doesn't harm our relationships with them.

It's incredibly frustrating, I know. Being trapped in the house with kids who become easily enraged and are always talking in booming voices is enough is driving me mental too

A lot to read. The things I got from it were- don't use expressions- have to, must this causes their natural inclination to rebel; Also try to create a bond with your child to gain their trust. I need to read it again

Ime a child who has few rules at 1 home can misbehave at the other. Star chart.. Lots of chats about different people being different sorts of dps. Different things happen in different houses etc. Ime bedtime isn't a fair time to be risking fall outs. Hardly nice to end the day on a bad note if at all possible.. Me and ds 6 take turns choosing a story for example.. You aren't doing things wrong op, ime some dc struggle with living 2 lives.

@firesidetartan

Can you define 'misbehaves'

What is he doing otherwise?

Not wanting to do writing homework and throwing his pen or ripping up paper. Not wanting to get out of the bath (shouting and kicking) so I end up just picking him out physically while he's wriggling. He seems to think this all funny. Throwing something like a razor in the toilet and looking at me to see my reaction and thinking it's funny.

He's also an embarrassment when I take him around friend's houses who have kids of a similar age. He poked his finger into one of their foam toys ruining it. When i ask him about it he denies it. He often lies and denies things which he has obviously done. When he doesn't get his own way he starts shouting etc. Other parents look at me like I can't control him and slightly shocked a his behaviour.

How long does he stay in his room for when he doesn’t behave? Does your DS attend any activities usually? Swimming or a play scheme?

Have a look at the resources for kids with Adhd from places like the Adhd Foundation. A lot of the behaviour management things might give you some ideas, even if he's not actually nd.

Sounds like he's currently running rings round you, we did this with our mum, it's not good in either the short or long-term.

@niceupthedance

What are the triggers for the behaviour is he trying to avoid doing particular things? Have you tried rewards for good behaviour rather than sanctions for bad? What does he enjoy doing? Can you do an activity of his choice for ten minutes twice a day (this will give him a sense of control).

I recognise that lack of authority/ child thinks he is equal. In my case DS is autistic and he also speaks to teachers in the same way (no fear of answering back or getting the last word).

If nothing works of the above, I would speak to your GP and see if you can get a referral that way.

He hates writing.

I'll try more rewards.

He enjoys making things with craft stuff, cooking, wood, cardboard and sellotape etc.

Not disruptive at school or when in nursery

@Sumwin1

How long does he stay in his room for when he doesn’t behave? Does your DS attend any activities usually? Swimming or a play scheme?

5 or 10 mins. I stand behind the door and hold handle so he can't come out. He knows i'm there and starts shouting.

Usually he goes to a swimming club.

He might be spoilt. Only child. Lots of attention from adults and he knows it

Not wanting to do writing homework and throwing his pen or ripping up paper.

How do you respond to this? Is there any encouragement or do you go straight to punishment?

Not wanting to get out of the bath (shouting and kicking) so I end up just picking him out physically while he's wriggling.

Tbh that's common with lots of kids, again active encouraging rather then demeaning they obey may help. 'Come on dc, quick, lest get your dried and changed and go do something fun'

He seems to think this all funny.

He is 6, it is funny to him. He sees the situation through a 6 year olds eyes, not with the view of an adult with maturity.

Throwing something like a razor in the toilet and looking at me to see my reaction and thinking it's funny.

He shouldn't have access to razors! Throwing things in the toilet, not ok. You say he is looking for a reaction, it all sounds like your child is doing just that. How much do you give your child? If you just leave them to it and don't interact, play or encourage them your child will seek any response they can get.

He's also an embarrassment when I take him around friend's houses who have kids of a similar age.

This is a really odd thing to say about your own child tbh.

He poked his finger into one of their foam toys ruining it. When i ask him about it he denies it. He often lies and denies things which he has obviously done. When he doesn't get his own way he starts shouting etc.

He sounds like a kid who needs you. So many children tell lies because they haven't been steered in the right direction, or any direction, so so things to get attention but try to avoid getting into trouble at the same timeZ. It's almost like a call for help.

Other parents look at me like I can't control him and slightly shocked a his behaviour.

Other parents do this regardless of how children are behaving. You just have to look on Mumsnet to see how many people are out there judging others. You haven't been single out there!!

@firesidetartan

Not wanting to do writing homework and throwing his pen or ripping up paper.

How do you respond to this? Is there any encouragement or do you go straight to punishment?

Not wanting to get out of the bath (shouting and kicking) so I end up just picking him out physically while he's wriggling.

Tbh that's common with lots of kids, again active encouraging rather then demeaning they obey may help. 'Come on dc, quick, lest get your dried and changed and go do something fun'

He seems to think this all funny.

He is 6, it is funny to him. He sees the situation through a 6 year olds eyes, not with the view of an adult with maturity.

Throwing something like a razor in the toilet and looking at me to see my reaction and thinking it's funny.

He shouldn't have access to razors! Throwing things in the toilet, not ok. You say he is looking for a reaction, it all sounds like your child is doing just that. How much do you give your child? If you just leave them to it and don't interact, play or encourage them your child will seek any response they can get.

He's also an embarrassment when I take him around friend's houses who have kids of a similar age.

This is a really odd thing to say about your own child tbh.

He poked his finger into one of their foam toys ruining it. When i ask him about it he denies it. He often lies and denies things which he has obviously done. When he doesn't get his own way he starts shouting etc.

He sounds like a kid who needs you. So many children tell lies because they haven't been steered in the right direction, or any direction, so so things to get attention but try to avoid getting into trouble at the same timeZ. It's almost like a call for help.

Other parents look at me like I can't control him and slightly shocked a his behaviour.

Other parents do this regardless of how children are behaving. You just have to look on Mumsnet to see how many people are out there judging others. You haven't been single out there!!

Regarding the pen throwing when he doesn't want to do his writing- yes, I have gone straight to punishment. I'll try more encouragement.

So perhaps more interaction. It's hard to always interact when chores or other things need doing but I'll work on this.

Thxs.

Fuck chores, you've got a child who is obviously crying out for attention. You can do the chores when he's asleep! He's acting up because it gets you to focus on him. Give him tonnes and tonnes of time and praise, tell him you love him, give him affection and attention, distract and discuss, don't punish. He wants you to connect with him.

^ yes, connection. Invite him to do household stuff with you, invite him to play with you, ask him about his day at bedtime (asking questions like "What was something that made you happy/sad/frustrated today?").

My child is also 6 and has a hard time getting out the bath when asked, completing homeschool work etc too. They need to be led into the desired behaviour or given some kind of incentive (by that I mean something like after you get out the bath, remember we're going to read that story you love, or whatever). It's unusual for kids this age to do what you want when you want them to. Also, yes, as you saw in the resources I posted, try not to demand/make direct requests of them as it often results in a lot of pushback. Starting with "Let's..." or "It's time to..." can lessen this and the sense of being ordered around. These are by no means magic bullets but do help.

He poked his finger into one of their foam toys ruining it. When i ask him about it he denies it. He often lies and denies things which he has obviously done.

Nobody can diagnose anything on the internet but if you were my friend and sitting on my sofa I would be asking you about an ADHD referral if I saw this. The impulsive behaviour (acting without thinking through what might happen next) combined with the instinctive cover-up which can be connected to a disproportionate fear of "getting it wrong" or "being caught out" which is a major thing in ADHD - the term they use is RSD for Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, and it can cause a child to deny something even if caught red-handed because the shame of admitting having done something wrong is too overwhelming.

School saying he is pacing, waving his arms and unable to stop talking would make me think ADHD too.

I might have completely the wrong idea but i think it might be worth looking into, if only to eliminate it as a possibility.

Nobody can diagnose anything on the internet but if you were my friend and sitting on my sofa I would be asking you about an ADHD referral if I saw this.

Jesus. An ADHD referral for a kid who poked his finger into a foam toy

Come on, it's clear from OPs subsequent posts that this kid just needs some parental involvement.

ok thxs

Have a look at “the book you wish your parents had read” by Philippa Perry.