Autistic sibling can’t cope with toddler tantrums

[Allthenumbers]

My almost 4 yr old autistic dd cannot cope with her 2 year old sister’s tantrums. It’s tearing our family apart.

The 2 yr old is very very strong willed. I can often distract her quickly enough but I’m not always quick enough or have enough energy etc and when she cries, she screams. The sound goes right through me so I can’t imagine what it’s like for dd4 who is sensitive to sound.

Dd4 will often try to help at first eg play peakaboo or bring her sister a toy but when that doesn’t work she panics and gets incredibly distressed and starts to lash out / scratch her sister. I obviously am protecting the two year old but it is very hard - I am holding one screaming child with another one trying to scratch / hit and get at her sister and then me. Yesterday was particularly bad as my poor 4 yr old wet herself during one of her sisters tantrums - she’s toilet trained but her motor skills are delayed so she can’t take herself to the toilet yet.

Even once dd2 has calmed down dd4 needs support to regain her equilibrium as meltdowns are so draining for her. Bless her she was able to get to her room yesterday when I told her as it’s her safe space. I can keep working on that.

I know eventually it’ll pass but I don’t know what to do in the meantime.

The tantrums are the usual illogical stuff. I do my best to head them off but it’s just not always possible. I can’t “give in” always for obvious reasons and often she’s so worked up that there is nothing to give in to eg she wants a yoghurt but then doesn’t want it etc etc

Has anyone been through similar? Any advice?

Today I put dd2 in her cot when tantrumming as I didn’t know what else to do. But I don’t want to make a habit of that. It seems quite damaging to dd2.

I’m struggling anyway. Having small kids is hard but the pandemic, living with autism etc. It’s very hard.

I don't think it's bad putting DD2 in her cot when tantrumming at all. I did similar and that was without the additional problems you've got.

It will give you time to helpn DD1 to get to her safe space AND show DD2 that tantrums only result in a bit of isolation...they have to learn that tantrums don't get attention anyway.

Agree the cot seems fine to me in the circumstances.

Does your 4 year old have a safe calm space she can take herself to when things get too much?

And nothing wrong with using the cot as a safe place for the 2 year old. Makes a lot of sense

Our 2 year old goes in the cot during a tantrum. Often its the safest place for them as they flail about so much.

They are 2.5 now and things have gradually improved.

Our eldest is NT but still finds it hard. They have a little den set up they can take themselves off to if it gets a bit much.

@Sirzy she has her bedroom but we need to work on her ability to get there. I can do a simple social story I think and I’m making her a sensory box so she can keep that in the room for her.

I suppose the cot is ok / the only option sometimes. But I feel awful / guilty. Dd2 has to put up with a lot as it is. Much of our life is dictated to us by making sure her sister can cope. She gets less attention than she should, she gets a more stressed mum etc. The stresses placed on siblings of autistic children are huge. Putting her in the cot is something I would never have done with her big sister. I want to stay close to her, to be a calming presence and help her learn to deal with big emotions. Not put her in the cot on her own. But perhaps if it’s a short time while I get dd4 to her bedroom then that’s ok.

Sensory boxes have been a godsend for us, I have them at various places in the house for ease of grabbing! Ear defenders may also be worth looking at if it’s the noise that is particularly an issue for her

And the cot, or a playpen, can also be a calming place for the youngest. Some sensory lights/projectors bit of music to help calm her down too.

And a big bottle of wine for you for after bed time too!

I was going to suggest ear defenders - can she cope with them?

Could you get the oldest some noise cancelling headphones. Then when things are calm practice her putting them on and going to her room. Let her do her favourite bathing while she is wearing them. Then when your ds2 had a tantrum , put her in the cot get your dd1 to go to her room and put the head phones on. Let her watch something or do something distracting she likes. Then you can deal with dd2 tantrums

I used to stay in the same room as DS when he had a tantrum. I'd just be there and say the odd thing but just keep calm . He would eventually calm himself down and then was usually ready for a cuddle. I wouldn't give him the thing he wanted and as you say often as not it wasn't something I could give anyway but I didn't like completely ignoring him.

Not sure where the rouge ' bathing ' came from!

And (apologise for multiple posts) if you look at charities like cerebra and new life they have sensory libraries where you can borrow a box of sensory toys - it ideal to help you figure out what will help her and what won’t without spending money

@Oxyiz she has got ear defenders but doesn’t like them or at lesser isn’t at a place yet where she can make the link to put them on when needed. But again, in time could work. I think it’s the noise but also the unpredictability / sudden change that she finds hard.

@Sirzy thank you thank you thank you! Making the cot a sensory space too is an amazing idea. Will alleviate my guilt and also help dd2. Thank you!!

@bumblingbovine49 thanks. Yes you’re right. That’s completely the thing to do. Sometimes you need a Mumsnet thread and some great people to help you see what you need to do! Thank you!

@Sirzy I hadn’t heard of this charity. Thank you! I’ll check it out.

Oh bless you OP. My twins are autistic and fortunately not overly sensitive to the noise they both make usually. However around age 2 one started doing this horrific screeching when upset - DT2 found it so upsetting he would be hysterical and start hyperventilating.

Do you have space downstairs for a dark den (they come in various sizes so could be quite a small one)? I’m wondering if a dark den with some light up toys might be a soothing place for her to go, although not all autistic children like them obviously.

We are applying to the charity Cauldwell for a sensory equipment pack - bubble tube and plinth with UV lights and various things and a dark den. We have to get their OT to sign it off, and it will cost around £350 IIRC but the equipment is worth well over a grand. Maybe something like that might help.

And yes, at the time it feels like it will last forever, but it will pass - do what you need to do to keep both safe in the meantime. I don’t think there are any easy answers.

Truly, thank you all. I was in a dark place when I started this thread. Feel like I have a plan now.

Could you set up a tent as a calm space downstairs that dd1 can easily retreat to downstairs when dd2 kicks off?

@SinkGirl I know exactly what you mean re the den and my daughter would love it. I don’t think we do have space downstairs but maybe some rearranging after Christmas or just stick to her room.

Thanks for the charity reference too. That sounds wonderful. I will look into it and talk to her OT. Thank you.

I agree that the cot is fine for tantrums, I found with DS at that age, trying to talk rationally or soothe him tended to feed the tantrum and would often esculate it, popping him somewhere safe and remaining close by but leaving him to it with a few of his toys seemed to calm him quicker. When he was a few months older it was possible to try and talk through his tantrum, but dont feel guilty about the cot; after all it's safe, she is familiar with it, and will know you are still close by. It would also provide a bit of routine for your other DC, and allow the space to be away from it and not distressing.

OP, I think you need a “safe space” just as much as your DD, and I hope you have found one here on MN!
You are absolutely amazing for coping every day with the problems you face. It would be tough enough in normal times, but during lockdown is many times harder.
Give yourself credit for how well you are managing, allow yourself to vent whenever possible, and make use of whatever support is available in the way of respite etc.
I don’t have anything to add to the good suggestions of PPs, but I just wanted to send you a hug and a morale boost. Things will get easier with time, as your DD2 matures - hang on in there. God bless.

OP, I think you need a “safe space” just as much as your DD, and I hope you have found one here on MN!

Agree. You're doing a great job OP.

@Babdoc @Daydreamsinglorioustechnicolor

Thank you so much. Your posts bought tears to my eyes. I do need to try and get more respite but it’s hard. DH and I are working how we can make life easier!

With the ear defenders the trick is to plonk them on when most needed.......so they can feel the benefit so to speak.

You can also get noise cancelling headphones which block external noise but can also have music played through them. So she could sit and watch a video with the majority of the noise blocked out.

Noise cancelling headphones can be so expensive - I got these for DH and he says they are great, wireless and comfortable. If you can afford them they might really help, especially if she can watch a favourite TV show or video she likes. Still not cheap but not £400 like most of them!

AKG N60NC Noise Cancelling Wireless Headphones www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B073D5Y7CN/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_9imZFbG52QSD4?psc=1&_encoding=UTF8&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Sink you don't need to spend that much 😳

My son's worn basic, peltor ear defenders for years. His defenders with a headphone jack cost under £25 and aren't any different to his uncles Bose ones in terms of noise cancelling ability