Weaning and angry toddler!

[Vergingondesperate]

Hi there, just wondering if any of you wise women has any advice to offer. My dd is nearly 3 and i have just weaned her off the breast because of teeth issues (fillings necessary, amd dentist advised no more night feeding) so that was july amd we worked down slowly and eventually stopped night feeding nearly a month ago. Now she was always a terrible sleeper and we cosleep because of that (started at 8 months as i couldn't take it anymore) so we are still cosleeping and despite a very rough first few nights she is now managing to sleep through the night without my help (phew!) BUT she dreads bedtime and has a total meltdown(and i mean melodrama. Screaming uncontrollably not allowing us near, for extended periods of time) at the mere suggestion of it. We are having to wait until she is exhausted before she will even contemplate it. At which point we lie down and cuddle. She cant stay still long enough to go to sleep amd almost every night i end up walking her around a bit at which point she drops off fairly easily and we are ok for the night. But this is 10-11pm. And she isnt sleeping later in the morning to make up for it. So she has gone from 12 hours a night to 9-11 hours sleep per night. Her behaviour in the day is unpredictable and i feel like i am walking on eggshells all the time. She is very angry with me and often just screams at me for no reason. Lockdown of course hugely exacerbates it all. If she was distracted and having fun during the day it probably wouldn't be such a problem but here we are. I guess my question is, has anyone else experienced such a prolonged emotional reaction to weaning, will it get better with time? I've tried talking about it with her, tried not talking about it...she wont accept any milk substitute or a dummy though we keep trying both. Any tips gratefully received!

She doesn't need a dummy or a milk substitute, that's just swapping one crutch for another.

I'd be very concerned by the anger tbh. What's her communication like?

Concerned in what way do you mean? I'm certainly very distressed. We talk a lot she's not got a great vocab though. She's very manipulative in general i think, and insightful. I do wonder if she's waging psychological warfare on me or if its pure distress on her part. So this isn't a common reaction to weaning then?

She sounds overtired, perhaps it's that rather than the weaning?

It sounds like she has a bunch of sleep associations, you could try and address them one by one. Have you tried her in her own room?

I found to my surprise, for example, my DS could drop off easier once I left the room rather than when I stayed in, meaning well, to help him sleep. Could it be that some of your support/interventions are keeping her awake?

You could consider a (gentle, as that sounds like your approach) sleep consultant?

I don't think she's undertaking psychological warfare or manipulating you either. I think you all probably need a break and some sleep!

Thanks for the comments it helps, and i think you're right about the tiredness. I kind of dismissed it before as the cause because well if she was so tired why wouldn't she just go to sleep! But i guess it's not so simple. She slept 11 hours last night and she is much brighter today. Maybe i am projecting my anxiety about weaning on to her a bit and assuming thats it when its not, and its just the underlying sleep issue. Its huge progress that she's making it through the night without intervention. She wakes and stirs still and reaches out to feel me then goes back to sleep on ger own. I'm a very light sleeper which is the only way i know this is what's happening! For that reason I'm not putting her in her own room yet, and when I ask she's pretty clear she wants to stay with me, but i will try letting her get to sleep on her own. Guess i need to be patient and get her over her fear of not being able to get to sleep alone, if that's what it is.

I too think overtiredness has a role in this.

I would possibly think about bringing bedtime slightly earlier for a while, and maybe altering the bedtime routine slightly. And not mentioning bedtime.

So perhaps a calming downtime downstairs, then saying it's bathtime. Calm bath, and then perhaps saying it's story time. Snuggle on the bed together and have a couple of short stories before encouraging her to lie down. An audio book on quietly, or gentle music might help her go to sleep on her own.

@Vergingondesperate

Concerned in what way do you mean? I'm certainly very distressed. We talk a lot she's not got a great vocab though. She's very manipulative in general i think, and insightful. I do wonder if she's waging psychological warfare on me or if its pure distress on her part. So this isn't a common reaction to weaning then?

This is quite a disturbing thing to say about a toddler IMO. Have you spoken to your GP or HV about this?

I'm sorry but what are you implying exactly, please just say it? Im not in the uk unfortunately so no access to such services. We have a family doctor of course but tbh he's not very helpful with such issues. I don't have much of a support network at all or anyone to talk to here. And your comments slightly freaking me out, please just say what you mean. Im not claiming to be a perfect parent, just trying my best. Amd until we stopped breastfeeding i always felt like i could deal with things and understood what was happening with her and how to help her. You think toddlers aren't manipulative, is that your point, and that im a bad person for thinking it may be so?

Ok, to me it seems like you're attributing a lot of malice and forethought to a little child in a way that isn't really appropriate. Your child spending lots of time in an absolute rage speaks to a great deal of frustration and upset, which you seem to be interpreting as naughty behaviour, rather than a little person trying to get their needs met. The fact that you said she's waging psychological warfare against you is pretty worrying. She's 2.

Everything you've said about her so far suggests to me that there's an underlying issue around bedtime. Is she scared? Anxious? Is it the only time she gets 1:1 with you?

I think tiredness is distorting your thinking. If i were you, I'd take a weekend away, leave her with her dad and get some proper rest. Then tackle bedtime when you get back. She needs to learn to fall asleep by herself - there are lots of good sleep training methods for toddlers, do some research and find something that suits you.

Thanks that's a constructive comment.

I was also coming on to suggest a much earlier bedtime and a calming routine. Hopefully will help you sleep better as well!

It sounds like she is getting a second wind being up that late and is overtired and over wrought.

What time does she eat her evening meal? I'd have an early ish tea, then some quiet time/bath/story bed.

Is it possible to let her have her own room? Maybe you are actually unknowingly disturbing her sleep in the same way she disturbs yours.

She can be involved in the furnishing of the room and might help to switch things up completely with new routine?

I mean this whole sleep thing was always an issue. Where i live kids go to bed much later than in the uk. I always pushed for earlier bedtimes but that has been difficult with the wider family and culture in general. At the end of summer she stopped napping and started sleeping 8-8 which was perfect. But we have a complicating factor that her grandparents just moved here and aren't free to see her till 5pm. She has a wonderful time with them and doesn't want to come home lately. This since stopping bf. We have tried to bring her home early but she resists a lot and gets very upset. So she comes home overtired and unwilling to contemplate bed. But not letting her see them would be an issue on the family and also confusing for her. Up till this point i have been always home with her. This is the first time she's had a regular daily playtime without me. Goodness, sorry i am giving you all my life story lol. As far as the comments re manipulation, i have said myself many times that babies dont manipulate they just need, snd i was never in the authoritarian let her cry camp. But as they get older i wondered (or have underlying assumptions maybe from growing up in the 80s) if toddlers/kids manipulate to get what they want. I thought she was trying to push to get bf back. Maybe I'm totally wrong. Anyway thanks for all the suggestions.