Should I take a leap of faith with my in laws?

[Octo88]

I’ll keep it short! I’ve been with my husband for close to 10 years. We have a 20 month old and due with a second in a couple of months. I’ve never had a lot in common with my in laws, but we’ve gotten on, shared birthdays and Christmas celebrations often or every other year. Since DD came along their behaviour changed towards me. My FIL in particular has come across as a bully, I’ve been ignored or ostracised on visits, their alcohol consumption at home has caused odd behaviour too - one aggressive message to DH a few months ago. They don’t discuss issues with us, but pass comments that come across as sublime manipulative. The crux of the issues seems to be with me, going from their changed and odd behaviour. I’ve invested a lot of time in developing good relations with them, and thought I was part of their family. However, the recent year or two has shown that I am clearly an outsider and I’ve felt deeply hurt by their change. I don’t feel comfortable around them at all anymore. I ended up getting some therapy through the NHS which has helped me view things from a better perspective to help my mental health (they are the main triggers for my anxiety/depression). About 20 weeks into my second pregnancy my MIL started talking to me in a friendly manner again and nothing negative has happened since. I don’t trust this sudden friendliness because I think it’s due to them wanting something or because I’m pregnant. I wonder if their green eyed monster is going to return once we’ve had the second baby/grandchild.

We don’t live close (3-4 hr drive) and have only seen them a few times this year because of COVID. But I suspect they will want to visit us when the baby is here. I suspect they might even want to spend time with my DD. The issue is, is that we’ve never given them time with our DD, unless it’s in our own home or theirs whilst we are also there. Occasion family or event trips too.... but recently MIL has been passing sublime comments here and there, And I assume it’s building up to something they want.... I guess that when they hear the word NO they will return to being the green eyed monster and their true colours will again be revealed.

I am posting because I want my children to have a relationship with them. I want them to be involved grandparents, but at the moment I’m reluctant to give them any ‘in’ with our family until I feel confident they respect us as parents (mostly towards me) and can behave appropriately. My husband lets things slide, never discusses issues (neither do they) and avoids any kind of confrontation about all the not very nice things that have been said. It’s crap and makes me feel even more worthless. I’ve written some things down for my husband after my therapy for him to know what I really can’t cope with.... I just haven’t had the guts to show it to him yet.

Any advice on how to go forward?

It is difficult to know how to respond, because without knowing you, or knowing them, and without any examples to go on, we have no concept of how much of this is your perception.

Complaining about your MiL making an effort to be nice to you seems an odd thing to complain about.

Would you be able to give us some examples of comments that come across as sublime manipulative. for example ?

You need to sit down with your husband and say he needs to speak to his parents as it’s ripping you apart inside. Tell him that if he doesn’t it’s likely you will and if you do then that will make relationship with both him and them worse significantly so it’s in his interest to sort it out. Don’t give them an in unless you really have to. Especially if they drink a lot.

I disagree with BackForGood, you don't need to present your case to the jury so that they can make a judgement about whether you/in-laws are being unreasonable 🙄 You say they're difficult and we can and should take your word for it. People who have difficult parents or in-laws will get it, and people who don't probably won't get it even if you try and explain until you're blue in the face.

Your feelings are valid and important. Find a way to be brave and tell your husband how you feel. Try and find a "solution" together - not that there is a solution, but I mean try and agree about how you're going to handle the situation, because you can't necessarily "fix" in-laws like this, you can only decide on strategies to try and boundaries to put in place.

If you haven't yet done so, read "Toxic In-laws" by Susan Forward. It's helpful. "Toxic Parents" is good too if your husband would be open to reading it.

(My comments are informed by personal experience of a similar situation which I won't go into, but suffice to say, I sympathise!)

PS It might be helpful to get this moved to Relationships

But how do we know that it is the in-laws being difficult - which it 100% could be - and not the OP's perception @AnotherEmma ?

There are hundreds of threads on here where posters come on and try to gain sympathy for something that a MiL is spposed to have said or done, and when they give examples, it is clear the MiL hasn't done anything wrong at all. In-laws can sometimes be in a position of not being able to do right for doing wrong.

Of course nobody has to give details of their lives on here, but if they don't give enough information about a situation, then people aren't able to offer suggestions or opinions or support or whatever the OP is looking for.

@Octo88. Just to be 100% clear again, I'm not saying your PiL aren't awful - they may well be. But we don't know that, and it is difficult for people to respond to your request for advice, without knowing enough about the situation.

There is enough information in the OP. I'm not going to quote the relevant bits. Just read it and believe it.

It's borderline gaslighting actually, telling OP it could all be in her head.

Thanks for the replies, I am working up to speaking with my husband again. I have found that therapy has given me my confidence back but distanced my confidence in my relationship. I am not sure if anything will come of the discussion but I am confident in making drastic action of limiting my time seeing them if nothing changes, so this is a last ditch effort for me. I think I will also look into those book suggestions, thank you @AnotherEmma

Some examples, going from most recent @BackforGood :

1. Agressive message sent to DH by FIL in the middle of the night (clearly drunk). The message was on social media and FIL deleted it a few days later, clearly he knew he’d been wrong. Neither my DH or FIL ever mentioned it in person and MIL tried to smooth things over the following day when she phoned up and was extra friendly.
2. First meet up after first lockdown - I was completely ostracised and ignored. I was out of the family reunion pictures. Nothing new, this is just how they are with me now, it has been very upsetting. The only conversation that was linked to me was my MIL complaining to relatives about me not giving her something that I produce for my business. Not true, I simply told her I didn’t want to charge her (I had a feeling she was expecting a freebie) and offered to gift it to her for her birthday/Christmas - she never responded to my message but has the decency to share to everyone that she got nothing for her efforts in asking....
3. An accidental in the middle of the night phone call from FIL - the night of a special occasion for DD. Again we think they’d been drinking.
4. First family Christmas with DD - we had them over and hosted them for 3 days. During that time I was ostracised as usual, but FIL flipped me off behind my back (saw whilst turning) and MIL shared an amused look with him over it . DH grandparents were also with us and they also kept passing random comments about all of my DD bad attributes coming from me. I’ve never felt so uncomfortable and unwelcome in my own home.
5. Just before Christmas we stayed with them, FIL was unhappy that I wanted to find somewhere to sit down to breastfeed my DD (who was 9 months), he generally made me feel unwelcome.

Due to them living far and COVID we’ve barely seen them this year, but it was often prior to this and things would happen every time. But generally speaking, there’s no eye contact or engagement towards me. I’ve turned into someone they clearly don’t like, for whatever reason that I am unaware of. Your welcome to search my name for things that have happened prior to this - I’ve posted before a long time ago. COVID has just given me the break I’ve needed to actually put my foot down now. My MIL sudden change in being friendly towards me - I can only put down to being temporary because I’m pregnant or because they want more of an ‘in’ with my family now that our second baby is soon expected. I don’t trust the sudden change at all and I am waiting for them to show their true face. However, could it also be possible that they actually have changed their tune towards me? They still get a ton of photos every month from me and I’ve continued that throughout their horribleness - I haven’t changed anything for them to suddenly change towards me. I am just fed up of the tension and aggression towards me, my mental health won’t take it any more - me confronting my husband with what I can’t cope with is me telling him this is their last shot.....

Its not at all clear what the in-laws are doing from the OP. It could be something horrific or literally nothing at all.

If I caught someone flipping me off behind my back that would be the last interaction I had with them.

DH has never said anything to them about anything. He was sat right next to me when things started to get difficult. It was when I heavily pregnant with DD and we were hosting them again. FIL has been drinking for quite a few hours and they were clearly excited about being grandparents for the first time. He came out and said to me that I was just an incubator for grandchildren and that they didn’t actually care about me. This was after he offered to nip to our corner shop for a pregnancy craving.... DH said nothing and MIL sat idly during his first bout of insulting behaviour towards me. I think toxic is a good word to use in my situation that has never been resolved or encouraged to resolve by my DH.

They sound rude and frankly quite rough - the heavy drinking obscene gestures ostracising you blatantly. I would quietly not be around them at all dh can visit on his own. Why offer yourself up to be treated like that in your spare time?

"He came out and said to me that I was just an incubator for grandchildren and that they didn’t actually care about me."

At that point I would tell them to leave and if DH didn't back me up we would have a big problem in our marriage.

Would your DH be open to couple's counselling to discuss these issues?

I think your main problem is no boundaries or consequences for clearly unacceptable behaviour.

They don’t sound particularly bright either.

I think with regards to your current situation, ad in, what are they leading up to/ asking for, and how you should manage it - whether they are game playing or not is irrelevant to what ypu are comfortable with in relation to visits and time with the kids. So get really clear on that - say they could come foe dinner but not stay over/ DH is responsible for cooking and fetching when they are around / you'd be happy to go to the park but not for DD to go alone, and whatever, and those are the answers ypu give to such requests. If ypu are trying to work out what and how to answer based on your guess on how they will behave, you are involving yourself in their toxicity and making it work put for them because ypu have changed ypur behaviour/boundaries around it.

They sound vile OP, but your DH needs to step up and support you.

After the incubator comment and flipping off, they wouldn't be welcome in my house again and I would make zero effort to have them involved in my children's lives. Poor children don't need that sort of behaviour around, especially disrespecting their own mother

What @AnotherEmma said above. Your DH needs to back you up. As things are I would not cooperate with seeing them, i.e.he goes alone if he wants but they don't come to yours for dinner (which I imagine you cook) while they're like this. No more hosting. Say they're rude and unkind to you and you aren't having them round.

I would stop sending photos, refuse to host them and I wouldn’t be going to see them. Why are you doing things that make you uncomfortable? Your DH doesn’t even stick up for you.

I would also keep any phone calls etc from them to you as a minimum. They call you pass the phone to DH. He’s not there you tell them you’ll let him know when he gets back.

The flipping off and incubator comment would be the last straw for me. Your DH needs to grow a pair and tell them their behaviour is disgraceful. I'd be telling DH that you won't be visiting them with DD and the new baby won't be visiting until it's old enough to be away from you for the day once you've finished breastfeeding. Also no overnight visits from PIL either in your own home. If DH wants to see them he can do it at theirs without you

EXACTLY the same with my in laws, except it’s only FIL. Completely underhanded in his nastiness, tiny things that mount up. Very passive aggressive. I have completely opted out and let DH deal with everything, haven’t seen FIL all year which is heaven. He moved minutes away from us (lived hours away) which was the ultimate pass-agg move, but at least we don’t have to go and stay now and DH can take the kids round whenever. If I was you I would let your DH take the kids to see his parents and you can have a weekend to yourself 😍

Reading your updates, the behaviour is the same as my FIL. Luckily my DH speaks up to his dad, I have had to train DH to feel and speak out after being raised by emotionally stunted parents, so now he is very reasonable but firm when he tells his dad where to go. Much better it coming from him because he knows his dad and is much less passionate than me, the victim. He’s not the direct target (I am) so he’s that stage removed. So it’s much better to come from him. Not to mention FIL is HIS family. Your DH definitely needs to defend you !!!

It does seem they have issues, I’m sorry, and it does seem you take it deeply to heart. And your husband less so.

I think you just need to sit down and speak to your husband about how you feel. It seems like they are holding out the olive branch, and you live so far away, I’m not sure one visit would be a major issue, but it’s up to you

Ps, off topic but sublime means excellent, I think you mean subliminal. 😃

I really appreciate all the responses and have taken in the comments. It is a boundary issue, it’s just unfortunate that my DH doesn’t have the backbone to say No or that’s not right.

I have struggled with making a decision on how to go forth with them. 1. They are my husband’s parents and my children’s grandparents, 2. Up until DD was born they’ve never been rude (maybe once or twice) or acted this inappropriately (alcohol consumption has always been high however). 3. My MIL is suddenly coming across as friendly (Naturally, I am cautious of trusting this and the reasons why).

Because my husband has done nothing and they have triggered my poor mental health, I am left with making a stand. I just don’t know wether it’s worth putting everything aside to see if this sudden ‘friendliness’ is them turning over a new leaf towards me. I want baby steps.... so I think the suggestion of only being comfortable with visits that last a few hours would be helpful for now. Perhaps if things go well, we can build up to extended visits.

Thank you for the suggestion, but I don’t think I’d be comfortable letting my husband take my babies 3-4hrs away for a weekend, so my in laws can spend that time playing ‘happy families’ with my children. This is the kind of ostracising thing they would want out of our family - for me, their mother to be out of the picture (or so I assume).

It’s unfortunate that it is the way it is. I can’t just get over the trauma of everything that has been said. I can’t just pretend I am ok, even if they are suddenly being nice - which I really do believe will change a few months after the birth of our second. I think it’s temporary. However, that is just speculation. I am glad I am not the only ones that have problems with their parents or in laws - honestly, all I see with other people is how wonderful of a relationship they have with theirs and I am really sad to not have that in our lives too.

Ah yes I hadn’t thought of it like that, sorry OP!