Suicidal 4 year old?

[aztecnik]

Yesterday during a tantrum my 4 year old reception child ran in the road. Thankfully it was a red light, but still I scared the life out of me.

On the way home o held her hand tightly and she said she wanted to die. I asked her way she would say such and thing and she said she doesn't know.

She said it again casually this morning and I'm very concerned. Not sure if this is normal or if she heard it from a child at school.

Can anyone help?

OP - talk to your GP who can get her referred to someone who can help.

I concerned and would be booking her in to see her GP asap. Is there any possibility of abuse, bullying, any deaths in the family, frightened of covid - maybe exposed to the news on tv too much?
I don't think we have a big enough picture of her life to comment really but 4 is far too young to be having these thoughts.

I very much doubt she is actually suicidal. At 4 there isn't really a proper understanding of death as permanent. What she is probably expressing is that something is upsetting her or making her unhappy or feels overwhelming and she wants it to stop.

I would try to find out what she is finding so hard. If this persists, speak to her teachers and the GP.

I'd be very concerned.
Get her seen by the GP ASAP and don't let them fob you off (if they try to that us).

If I contacted my GP wouldn't they then make a referral to SS?

She spends a lot of time with me (single mum) when she's not a school. Only just had parents evening, so any bullying would have been addressed then. It can't be abuse either. I'm hoping it's not genetic as depression has persisted for generations in my family and my brother also took his own life many years ago.

This is horrible for you to hear, poor thing. Have you spoken to her about death? Does she know what it means to die? Can you talk to her about why she said that and how she feels etc? Does she have vocab around feelings? How is she in herself, does she seem sad or upset?

Is she distraught when this happens? Have you noticed any strange behaviours? I would be asking her in a safe calm place why? I would also have her on a hand rein and seek medical help ASAP.

It doesn't have to be abuse or bullying OP. It could be that she doesn't have the language to express an issue that is in adult eyes quite minor. Like that her friend didn't want to play with her on Friday or she didn't like the lunch and so was hungry all afternoon. As I said, 4 year olds don't generally have a proper understanding of death so I doubt that she is truly expressing a wish to die.

I doubt social services would be involved, GP more likely to refer to preschool CAMHs.

I don't know about the referral to SS, but if that does happen please know that they'd be on your side in working towards getting your DD the help and support she needs. If they do get involved, please don't see them as the enemy. They're part of your team, a network of people there to help you. There will probably be some uncomfortable questions asked, but you need to be honest and not defensive - no one is assuming you're at fault, it's box ticking to get to the bottom of what's going on.

You sound like a good, caring mum. Please don't be afraid to ask for all the support you can get.

A GP won’t contact SS but they will talk through any fears you may have.

Some four year olds say random things especially when they know they will get a reaction from you. My dd3 (4) can say really disturbing things and it’s usually something she has seen or heard. She told me that her dad set our house on fire, fire engines and the police came and arrested him and took him to jail. Absolutely non of this happened but I was

Try and have a talk with her teacher and try and speak to your GP to put your mind at risk

Have they ever shown signs of depression?

I would imagine at 4 she has a very limited undersyandng of death so I absolutely wouldn't regard her making these comments as an indication she was suicidal. Obviously, if she is otherwise sad or upset, you should take steps to address this.

It must have been difficult to hear that from a four year old. But it was a tantrum. I wouldnt panic unless there are other signs of worrying behaviour. I doubt she comprehends what death means and is just trying out words and discovering their impact.

At that age my DS started talking about death. He had heard it from a kid whose granny had died. We had never talked about it at home and god knows how his classmate described it to him. He was upset about it and that upset me. Since then school has taught him about heaven, so now he has a very rosy idea of death.

You will understandably be sensitive to this kind of talk cos of your family history

It may be worth asking her about death? Has she lost any pets, what does she think happens when she does? It could be that she has seen or heard something about death and Is just processing it eg if I die I get to hug grandma again or similar. I wouldn’t overly worry but equally wouldn’t ignore

My 4 year old went through a period of talking quite a lot about death at the start of the pandemic. It was more matter of fact e.g. 'great grannie will die soon because she is really old'. She doesn't grasp the implications of it. I think it's likely to be over dramatic or said to get a reaction. We get lots of 'if you do X I will never talk to you again'.

I would try to talk about feelings without mentioning death. Zones of regulation is a good system to use. See if she is sad, worried etc.

Try your GP but you might also be better talking to school or your Health Visitor who can unpick it some more.

Stop asking her because you will reinforce it and she'll say it more

CAMH don't usually do 1:1 work with children younger than about 7. They might do some family intervention but the wait would be long. There is no automatic need for social services as there appears to be nothing abusive here.

For a 4 yr old they don't understand death and certainly not suicide. It does not mean what you as an adult think it does and it would be harmful for you to project that on her.

I think she knows you were cross with her and frightened about her running in the road and she feels bad and this is her way of saying she feels bad about it.

Just give her a lot of affection and let her know you are not cross about it anymore. Give her lots of chances to talk to you in case there is something else bothering her but definitely do not ask her stuff like 'did you mean it? Do you really want to die?'

Could it be that you said something about dying in the heat of the moment eg 'never run in the road a car could hit you and you might die'

Or from somewhere else she connects running in the road with 'you might die' and that's why she said it 'well I want to die (without understanding what that means) so it doesn't matter that I did that'

And then it got a rise out of you so she said it again today.

Not saying she is manipulative or it's conscious but kids try things out that get a reaction with no understanding that they've really upset you or why.

Ok. I won't mention anything to her and will ignore her next time she says it.

I'll try this first and if successful then I won't have to approach anyone for help.

I wouldn't ignore her op, but I would paraphrase and give her more appropriate words to express her upset:

DD: I want to die
Mum: gosh, it sounds like you are feeling very upset. What happened?
DD: Maisie doesn't want to play with me and says I am not coming to her party
Mum: oh, that is upsetting. It sounds like Maisie was angry. Did something happen?
DD: I broke her Lego model by accident
Mum: ah, that will be why Maisie was angry. When people are angry they often say mean things that they don't really mean. Did you say sorry for breaking her model?
DD: no....
Mum: well how about we draw a little card to say sorry and you can give it to Maisie tomorrow?
DD: ok!

Obviously just an example: reflect back what you think her statement really means, and ask her what's up.

Have you seen the Secret Lives of Four Year Olds episode where the little girl picks up the phone and says something like "Stop ringing me Dave, the baby's not yours, I don't love you anymore!"?

Four year olds are sponges and highly observant. Things that are background noise to adults, TV shows, radio, conversations are all treasures to be mined by small children.

Chances are she has picked it up and is exploring it.

Ok. That's actually really helpful, I'll try that approach. Thank you

I know, she picks up a lot. I hear myself in her voice sometimes- and cringe.

Have you spoken to her school about it? It might be something she’s heard older children saying in the playground or around school?

Like others have said, at this age they are sponges and will repeat things they’ve heard with very little understanding.

It might be worth speaking to her teacher and seeing if they can shed any light on it for you.