I give up!

[Phoenixwings1989]

Not sure what I want to achieve by posting this but never mind.

I have struggled everyday since I became a mum to DD seven months ago. I was referred to perinatal team back in June/July I think and was prescribed Duloxitine through their doctor. That helped for a bit but not anymore.

DD was a great sleeper from around 3 months but just as she turned four months she hit her sleep regression and would always take two hours plus to get her anywhere near ready to sleep again during the night. Three months on and she won't nap or sleep by herself during the day. She wakes 3-4 times during the night now instead of sleeping a good few hours. DH and I have had to sleep during the day just to get energy and that leaves hardly any time for anything else.

I don't know what's going on or what to do anymore. I spend so much time feeling hopeless and like a useless mum and it upsets me so much. I am crying writing this because I feel like I should never have become a mum in the first place if I couldn't cope with everything.

DH is upset/ frustrated with me because I am upset. Just said I am making everybody miserable and I guess everything is my fault as nursery nurse from perinatal hinted I'd been moddycoddling DD hence her sleeping problems.

Wish I wasn't here.

First thing your a fantastic mum never put yourself down with being a mum it's the hardest job in the world, and I think you need to be going back to the doctor to have a look at medication as if it's not helping you they might change it and also offer extra help you may need.

Could you and DH take it in turns at night with the baby like one off you does the first half and one off you do the second half or take days in turn if that works better for you both.

Also is DD still in your room as we had that problem with DS waking in the night HV suggested to move him to his own room as we could be waking him up

I’m sorry you’re going through such a rough time OP. It will get better and you will feel like yourself again, it just will take some work and time.

Sleep wise I can’t comment as I am well known for breeding non sleeping children, but I feel your pain.

guess everything is my fault as nursery nurse from perinatal hinted I'd been moddycoddling DD hence her sleeping problems.
That’s is a load of bollocks and don’t give it a second thought please, what a stupid comment to make about a baby.

Please look after yourself, even if you don’t fancy it get up, get dressed, have breakfast and go out for a walk; fresh air will do you wonders.

You’ve had a baby during a world pandemic,
It couldn’t get any harder but it will get better.

I struggled hugely until 10 months - mentally and physically- then I promise you it definitely got much easier and more enjoyable and I really turned a corner. Motherhood is incredibly tough to begin with but give it time and things will improve. Sorry to hear you're finding things tough

Thanks everyone!

I have suggested to DH about us taking it in turns via shifts but he is convinced we will drift apart and have no time for each other even more. Men can be so stubborn at times, I find. HV suggested looking into nurseries but I imagine they will have no spaces due to Covid so haven't tried. We don't have any family close by just DH's mum and DD is always unsettled when she popped up before new measures were taken.

I will contact the doctor about meds and see what she says regarding them.

She is also still in our room partly because her room is directly above the garden and sometimes it can be noisy with neighbours kids playing and we're worried it might disturb her further.

I tried explaining to the nursery nurse that she has never settled away from me since she turned 3 weeks old when she wouldn't sleep in her moses basket not would she settle in a baby carrier or a sling but she wouldn't hear me out. Then she said it was obvious she wasn't self soothing if she kept waking up which she has been doing since three months and she witnessed that for herself just weeks ago! She has no children of her own but has been a nursery nurse for twenty years.

I hope I will feel better by the time she is ten months. HV said her sleep will probably improve when she starts having three meals a day as food will fill her up. Hoping that's the case too.

You are not a useless Mum! I’ve no advice on the sleeping as I’ve been bloody lucky and have good sleepers on the whole, the non sleeping periods have been HELL but would suggest white noise. My two had a euan the dream sheep which worked a treat when they were babies!

I’d definitely suggest getting in touch with your GP. Once I got my meds sorted for pnd the whole world turned colour again and I could cope with everything so much better. I just call the dr now and we adjust my dosage up and down depending upon how I’m coping.

Mine are nearly 3 now, and sadly can very much relate to where you’ve written about not knowing what’s going on or what to do now! Every time I figure mine out and get us running smoothly and feel like I’ve got this mothering shit DOWN they grow up a little more and I’m on the back burner until I figure them out. Two phrases on here that I read when they were newborns have stuck with me and helped massively ‘all fed and nobody dead’ and ‘it’s just a phase, this too shall pass’.

Hang on in there, you’re doing great and it will pass.

Your baby’s sleep sounds normal to me but neither of my children have been ‘good sleepers’. Babies aren’t suppose to self soothe, a few do but I mean a very few. Can you safely co sleep? I find cosleeping better but it’s not for everyone. I now get to sleep in bed and can roll away for the rest of nap and or early evening or even better I could to sleep too. A sling can be useful during the day or walking in the pram too. Things change so just because something didn’t work last weeks doesn’t mean it won’t this week.

Do you want to put your baby in nursery? If you do then ring some, if you don’t yet then don’t bother. If you are going back to work then you will need to start thinking about your childcare plans for then.

The first year or so is just about survival especially

If the duloxetine was helping for a while, could you go back to GP and ask for dose to be adjusted or to try something else? There’s no need to feel embarrassed, if it helps you cope it’s a good thing.

Sleep is very tricky during the first year. Some babies sleep well, but the majority don’t. It is NOT normal for most babies to self settle at that age, goodness knows what the woman meant by “mollycoddling”! The vast majority of babies need support with sleep at that age. You’re not “creating a rod for your back” (my most hated phrase!) you’re responding to your child’s needs. What you’re describing is developmentally appropriate and quite common, NOT a problem. If you look at it as if it’s a problem you’ve created, it’ll make you feel shit. It’s not, you just have a child that isn’t ready to sleep without support from you just yet. Focus on what strategies can help you deal with that, rather than than feeling bad that it’s the way it is.

Personally, I found cosleeping a godsend at this age. Yes, DD still woke up, and so I did too, but I didn’t wake all the way up or get out of bed, so I went straight back to sleep once she was settled (or sometimes before). We actually coslept really happily until she was 2.5. It wasn’t something I thought I’d do, but it worked amazingly well for us. (Spare bed was left made up so DH could go in there if he wanted a better night’s sleep, or if we fancied some intimacy )

For napping, there were a couple of things I tried. DD NEVER self settled for a nap if I was around. She did at nursery (much older than yours is) but always required assistance with me. One option is to embrace the nap! Get comfy and snuggle up with a DVD. It’s not as good as sleep, but it does help you feel a bit more rested that you have a good chunk of time with your brain switched off and your body still. Otherwise I’d take DD out in the pram - the fresh air really helped me, and she’d nod off quite well. Slings can also be great - they sleep, you have your hands free. I didn’t find it restful though, so I wouldn’t necessarily recommend this if you’re tired.

All mums feel like they can’t cope sometimes. It definitely doesn’t make you a bad mum to feel this way, just human like the rest of us. You will get through this, and your baby won’t always need you this much.

Have you thought about sleep training? I know it is a controversial subject, but my DS’ sleep was awful up until 10 days ago after going through the 4m sleep regression. We did the Ferber method, and within a few days he was sleeping 6:30 - 6:30 and if he did wake up in the night he settled himself. Not advocating it for everyone, but we were as desperate as you sound, and it has worked well for us. I felt like a terrible mum doing it, but for me the trade off has been worth it, as he now has a mum who can function in the day and who plays with him and actually enjoys it.

Oh OP, I feel your pain. My 7 month old went through a really rough patch of sleeping. About 3 weeks ago, I decided to sleep train. Literally took 1 night, albeit not the most pleasant night, but she went from waking 5-6 times a night to 1-2 times, so still not perfect but much better than before!

My DD had horrendous sleep regressions - the first 18 months swung between brilliant sleep to being up 4-8 times a night. Things that made it manageable: co sleeping for at least one nap most days - I'd just go back to bed with her and would get usually a decent 45 minutes +; and splitting the time with my DH, quite often one of us would end up in the spare room so we could get a decent stretch and as I did the majority of nights, he would usually take her out for a walk on weekend so I could sleep. We have always split the weekend lie ins so we get one each.

Agree with PP about speaking to your GP about your meds if you're struggling still - it might take a few options to get it right.

I have spoken to the doctor's secretary at perinatal and she has made a note of it as doctor is off sick and won't be back to work until Tuesday. Secretary said she might be able to squeeze in a phone call but if not nearest appointment would be 12th November so hope she is able to ring before then.

I didn't want to co sleep because I was so scared something would happen but we have ended up doing so on a few isolated occasions when she hasn't settled any other way. We always make sure it is as safe as can be and I am a pretty light sleeper and feel the slightest movement.

DD has always napped with me up until now but even if I put something on the TV she will tend to move about and not settle then the crying will start. I have struggled to put her in her crib too out of fear of her crying and me not being able to settle her again, so this helped. This came after DD wouldn't sleep in her moses basket.
CrazyChemist did you have any problems when the time came for her to sleep in her own room? We are worried she might like it a bit too much and the difficulty then would be getting her used to sleeping on her own when the time came. She is also fussy with being in her pushchair now and she used to love being in it.

I'm not familiar with sleep training at all.

You need to sleep train. We did controlled crying at 7 months and she slept through after one night. It doesn't sound like you're depressed, just sleep deprived.

@Ohalrightthen

You need to sleep train. We did controlled crying at 7 months and she slept through after one night. It doesn't sound like you're depressed, just sleep deprived.

Rubbish. Nobody ever needs to sleep train.

And the nursery nurse is clearly talking out of her arse. Can't mollycoddle a newborn nor is your baby's sleep anything other than within the range of biologically normal infant sleep. I also had (ok, have to some degree ) a crap sleeper. Possibly partly genetic as my sister and I both were. So what would the nursery nurse say about that. Self soothing/ settling/whatever is also largely a made up piece of bollocks to castigate those of us who don't have 'good babies' . Just like @crazychemist, I coslept. Then we coslept in a single bed on the floor in DS room and I could sneak away for a bit. That gradually got longer and longer.

I'd suggest to your DH that his attitude is likely to drive you away far more than supporting you and stepping up as a fellow parent. Baby sleep can be an absolute killer but you'll only come out the other side as a couple if you support each other, talk it through, accept that it isn't great but will get better.

And yes agree about going back to GP. Low dose sertraline helped me a little but when I eventually asked to have it increased, I became a functional human again. Yes sleep helps but it's not the only factor

@Phoenixwings1989 your DD sounds very, very similar to mine. I too felt like I'd failed both her and us because she doesn't sleep, either during the day or at night. Chronically sleep deprived, with some nights having 10+ wake ups.

She is 10 months now, and started nursery a few weeks ago. Honestly, it's a godsend. The stressful day naps are, frankly, not my problem any more. She still doesn't sleep at nursery, and they've commented how much she fights sleep - it's made me realise it's just her personality, not something I'm doing wrong.

Night time is still tough, but we've started some gentle sleep training to get her falling asleep in her own bed. We still have hours where we're awake in the night, but she is definitely getting better.

I would absolutely, 100% look into a nursery place for her if you can.

Take care of yourself, it is so hard but it will get better.

Your baby's sleep is normal; the advice you're receiving from people is awful.

I co-slept with both of mine. No rods were made for backs, they never screamed, they are now happy 8 and 4 year olds.

Take the easiest option, get as much sleep as you can.

OP am really sorry you are feeling so distressed. You are not a bad mother and you are not doing anything wrong. A 7 month old would struggle to self soothe. When DS was 4-6 months old, his sleep was absolutely terrible. The HV suggested sleep training. To be honest I wasn't able to train him much and he has just recently started sleeping through the night at 14 months, but I did find co-sleeping helpful. Once the baby is older than 6 months, the risks are lower and if you take precautions, you can very well sleep with the baby in the same bed. I do find DS sleeping better with us, though he is a little monkey and literally turns 360 degrees, pushing us both out.

@Phoenixwings1989, nope no trouble at all with her moving to her own room. The only thing she asked for was a nightlight, which she still has, as she doesn’t like the room to be totally dark. She’s 4 now, no sleep issues at all.

I went through a stage when I googled everything about sleep and thought I must be an awful mother for not sleep training - lots of websites imply that if you don’t do it, your child will never self settle, won’t be getting enough sleep in the meantime which is bad for their development etc etc.... but it just didn’t feel right to me so I didn’t do it and worried like mad I would do my DD harm by not “training” her. Turns out to be complete crap - I suppose if they didn’t say stuff like that, nobody would pay for sleep consultants/books/sleep programmes etc!

I’m not saying you can’t do sleep training. If you want to do it, and that’s what your family needs, then by all means. There are plenty of websites and sleep programme that will take you through different types of gradual withdrawal/controlled crying etc. All I’m saying is that you don’t have to do it if it doesn’t feel right for you. We never did any kind of sleep training because I just never felt like it was the right time. DD goes to sleep perfectly well, I haven’t had to stay with her till she goes to sleep since she’s been in her own room (except the first night), I kiss her goodnight and tuck her in and leave. There have never been any tears, she sleeps through perfectly well (with the exception of a brief patch when she was potty training and used to wake at about 3am for a wee) and wakes happy in the mornings.

If you do sleep train, you’re likely to get more sleep now. It’s a much quicker fix that just waiting for them to naturally develop more adult sleep patterns, so if you need it, go for it. It just never felt right for me and my family. We all have different situations and different needs.

If you end up cosleeping by accident, I’d suggest just planning to do it - much safer and more comfortable for everyone involved! A friend of mine who coslept with both of hers at once stuck a single bed next to their bed to make it wider (not something I had the space for). Depends how much of a star fish your little one is what will be useful to make it a comfortable arrangement! We put the cot next to the bed (with side completely off) and that just gave us a bit more space in total.

One thing you will find - health visitors can have useful information, but they also come with a TONNE of prejudice and strong opinions, much of which isn’t based on anything in particular. They often have opinions on sleep/weaning that’s bear no resemblance whatsoever to up to date research. By all means listen, but be prepared to do a bit of your own research before feeling you have to follow their advice! Also remember that your baby is YOUR baby. Nobody would ever suggest that all adults are the same and have exactly the same needs. Your baby will not have exactly the same needs as every other baby. You know them best and are the best placed to make judgements.

Oh and btw - I’m expecting twins in a couple of weeks. Intending to cosleep from the start this time and have no intention of feeling bad if I don’t fancy sleep training them either. Sod what The HV say. I have a happy, smart, confident 4 year old who is never clingy and has no sleep issues whatsoever. You don’t HAVE to do things in a way that doesn’t feel right to you.

As @Harrysmummy246 said "I'd suggest to your DH that his attitude is likely to drive you away far more than supporting you and stepping up as a fellow parent. Baby sleep can be an absolute killer but you'll only come out the other side as a couple if you support each other, talk it through, accept that it isn't great but will get better. "

Your husband isn't pulling his weight. You are both her parents. You need to sort the sleep together. Discuss it, come up with a p,an that involves both of you.

@crazychemist That's good to hear. I know various people have said DD will always want to sleep with us if we let her which has added to our hesitation of cosleeping.

DH has been wonderful in fairness. I struggle with really bad fatigue most days as I have relapsing - remitting MS and have had various yucky side effects from the meds which has made me limited in what I can tolerate hence feeling like a bad mum. Little wonder he's irritated a bit and the comment he made was due to feeling frustrated because I wouldn't tell him what was wrong. He likes to be useful but often feels helpless when I am upset.

I know you said that you DH isn't keen on doing different night patterns afraid off you both drifting apart but what about two nights a week where you both one night get a chance to completely recharge or in the day during nap time one off you goes to bed for a few hours just to get a good couple off hours sleep you would be surprised what a couple off uninterrupted sleep can do for the mind and the body.

When people say babies can’t self soothe, how do you mean? I thought quite a lot of babies aged 6 months plus are capable of putting themselves back to sleep after a feed in the night, for example? And quite a few are able to get themselves to sleep for a nap as well aren’t they (albeit with white noise maybe).

Anyways, OP you have my sympathies - DS (6 months) has been a great sleeper up until recently. He’s now waking between 3-4 times a night and I’m struggling to cope!

He’s also not napping well. Trying to get him to sleep now and it’s taken 40 mins and counting...

@Phoenixwings1989 that doesn't tally with my experience at all, or with any person that I know that coslept. It’s totally natural for small babies to sleep with their parents - there are tonnes of cultures where this is just what everyone does and children move into their own room when they are fully weaned. If it doesn’t appeal to you, by all means don’t do it, I know some people don’t like to. But it’s not something to be afraid of if you want to try it. My DD is totally fine in her own room. She settles to sleep perfectly well without assistance and sleeps through. She is not clingy in the slightest during the day and happily trots off to preschool.

@newmum234 many babies don’t settle well at that age. Some do. There are plenty of “good sleepers” out there, and these things seem to run in families to some extent. But there are also plenty of babies who aren’t happy to settle alone. If you have a “bad sleeper”, I bet you can train them that you don’t come at night so they need to go back to sleep on their own, but some will be very unhappy (probably some are just fine with it). Different adults have different needs and preferences, so do babies!

Sorry to hear you’re going through a tough patch with yours. Hope it doesn’t last long.

I have just one comment to make .

my first baby was born at 28 weeks and in an incubator for nearly 10 weeks .
We had to travel in to see him and I did manage a couple of breast feeds a day ( by using a machine) /when I was not there the nurses did 4 hour feeds . fed him changed him , swaddled him and left him . that was his routine . and the other babies as well . If they cried they were left . When I got him home he was no trouble at all .

when I had my second , I thought I have this nailed - I will do the same -as it worked . But no the second was a bad sleeper . I blamed my self . it turned out she had a tongue tie ( no one spotted it ) and was hungry amongst other things . Once that was sorted she was fine .