AIBU expecting him to stop shouting at DD?

[GenGenGo]

My partner and I clash about parenting styles. I favour a loving, gentle approach, not quite as far as full-on Therapeutic Parenting but basically, not shouting at children unless they're gonna get run over..

I'm fine with Time Out, consequences etc and definitely want to teach boundaries and respect. OH favours shouting and shouts at length. I simply can't bear it, to me it's terribly unkind shouting at children whilst they're crying when it's not even a spectacularly naughty thing they've done!

Last night he shouted at our four-old as she wanted to be tucked in again at 6am and he said she should just pull the covers up. Shouted at length, "I'm sick of it, I've had enough, you do it. I'm sick of it, we've told you a million times." In his defense, yeah she does always wake up, get out of bed and then wake us up to put her back and cover her up. But then again, she is only four....

I'm not so uncertain about what normal behaviour is (with a partner/as a parent). OH is so utterly convinced that I'M being awful when I tell him to acts like he hates her when he is shouting like that. He says I am soft and that she needs discipline. It's true, she is not that great at following orders and has been told to stay in bed etc but she is far from wayward, it's all pretty standard stuff.

OH's mood can sometimes be very angry and negative as he reacts very badly to life's stresses. DD loves him dearly and he is a really great parent in numerous ways. I'm at the point that I don't know whether I need to make a big compromise and accept we parent differently or whether shouting a lot really is wrong. I can't tell if I'm blowing this all out of proportion because I detest shouting and arguing so much and view his behaviour as unkind. Is it?

Good parenting means holding back your negative emotions and acting in a calm way.

It doesnt mean you never shout, it means you shout because you have thought about it and that is the approach you are going to take in that specific instant and it is mixed up with lots of not shouting and encouragement and changing how the family works/plans/agrees stuff ahead of time so that everyone gets along together.

Good parenting also means that you know what behaviour is age appropriate and what is not. Wanting help getting to sleep at age 4 is age appropriate, wanting that help at age 13 is not.

Good parenting does not mean giving your child everything they want instantly and bending over backwards for them

I would suggest you and DH take a parenting course together, it will help you understand together where the other is coming from, learn some new techniques and hopefully find a middle ground you can both agree on and stick to. I am not saying that you are overly permissive but it does seem like you DH is overly aggressive. Its just if you take a parenting course together with an open mindset, you might be able to find the middle ground that is right for both of you

If he is unwilling to compromise and learn more about parenting, then consider your options. Staying in the current environment means your DC will learn that anger and lashing out is the best response to stressful situations and when they cant get their own way.

Discipline isn't a punishment, it's education.
Shouting, is not teaching a child discipline, it's bullying.
I'd tell him to stfu with the shouting or be prepared to leave the bully.

That sounds horrible tbh :( I have shouted at DD occasionally when she’s pushed me to the limit but not regularly. It’s a horribly stressful way to grow up

Most people shout occasionally if they lose their temper and that's normal and I don't really think it's damaging as long as it's not very often, but I don't agree with it as a form of discipline. Secondly your dh has too high expectations of a 4 year old, getting up early and wanting to come in bed with you or be tucked back in is just normal and they shouldn't be shouted at.

He’s out of order. A firm voice should be all that’s needed for bad behaviour or a reassuring voice for a scared little girl. Not shouting at a little girl because he’s stressed. He should deal with his stress so he isn’t like that.

I take it you’re not known for shouting. I’m preparing to be flayed but perhaps you could show him how scary and unexpected it is for someone you love to go shouty by showing him (while dc is at nursery or out playing it with gran etc)?

Is there something he always does, like leave the butter out of the fridge or not put the top on the ketchup bottle? Go through when all is calm and SCREAM At him YOU DO (whatever it is) ALL THE TIME ITS WRONG JUST PUT IT IN THE FRIDGE. Then quietly say ‘did you like me screaming at you there, it’s not nice is it, did you get a surprise. Imagine what a little girl who can’t rationalise your emotions feels like. Shouting is not needed, and not fair of you to do that to our child who loves you and will end up terrified of you.
Oh and bye the way could you put the butter on the fridge when you’re done with it please. Thanks.

If that doesn’t shock him into understanding nothing will and I’d be surely tempted to consider if it’s worth staying with him if he is harming your child.

A joint parenting course would be great if he will go.

surely you know it is not reasonable to use shouting as a form of discipline to a young child, esp with a powerful man's voice.
have you become so habituated to his ways that you have lost your sense of proportion, of right judgment.
that in itself is concerning.

I'm in your boat too. My DP loses it on a regular, shouting for the smallest things and then wonders why our 3 yr old DD doesn't really want to be around him. He accuses me of babying her all the time, I really don't. I work with young chn myself so I know shouting isn't the way forward and have put in place different strategies to help with behaviour etc. To be fair she isn't a badly behaved child at all just a regular inqisitve 3 yr old. But even with things in place he still feels the need to shout at her at the drop of a hat. He feels she should listen to him when he speaks to her first time, never takes into account that she is 3.
She often ignores him, always wants him to go to work, regularly refuses to hug him. Yet he doesn't want to hear it when I bring up that his behaviour towards her is the cause of these things. His answer is she's the way she is because I baby her ??? I can appreciate we all parent different but how you cannot see that your actions are the cause of a reaction is beyond me. I'm stuck to be fair, we talk regularly but right now we're at a stalemate...

Thanks for all your feedback on this. I’ve definitely not become habituated to it, I have a huge issue with it. Feeling very gloomy about all this which is why I didn’t come back to read the responses for so long.
This morning my husband put our daughter in time out at 7am because she made a noise at him that we’ve told her to stop doing, a really loud shriek/shout that she’s learnt from another child. I felt the immediate time out was quite dramatic so mouthed at him ‘too much!?’ as I didn’t want to show any division in front of DD and undermine him. His response was to lay into me about it in front of her.
Feeling pretty despairing tbh

I’m really sorry to hear that. He doesn’t sound very reasonable or insightful

Op I'm sorry this has happened to you he doesn't sound like a good man at all.

Like everyone else I agree your DH is totally out of order but I also feel you are letting him cloud your view of your own parenting style, when I read the start of your OP I was expecting you to be into attachment parenting, not saying no etc but it became clear that your parenting style is completely middle of the road and normal, it is in no way "soft". Your DH has totally unrealistic expectations, children get up early, it's what they do and no amount of explaining will help. With the annoying noise I suggest just ignoring it, she will soon stop if she doesn't get a reaction.

OP, your partner is a bully.

I didn’t want to show any division in front of DD and undermine him

It's not undermining him, it's protecting your daughter. She's learning as much about relationships from your silence as she is from his shouting – and I say that with love, not as an accusation.

Are you afraid of him?

@ladybee28 this is why my heart aches. I am trying to be reasonable and rational, I’ve read up a lot on this and general consensus is that you support each other in front of the child (unless it’s abuse, which this really doesn’t fall under) and then talk about it later. I find that hard but I’m trying and now I don’t know if I’m wrong for trying to do that. What a mess I’m in

@GenGenGo –I get it. I totally see how hard you're trying.

And I'd also challenge what you've said that this isn't abuse.

I’m sorry for what you’re going through, sending hugs. I don’t usually comment on things like this but I do feel quite passionately about this. I grew up with a parent like you’re describing and I developed a lot of problems later in life which I sought counselling and therapy for, even now I start to panic when I hear a raised voice. I do feel like I had an abusive parent because of the damage it caused but that’s just my situation. It can’t be easy for you to be going through this and it will be affecting you too because you love your DD more than anything. I’m not sure what to suggest but could a HV help in any way? Or finding studies done on parenting styles might help him understand

Poor little girl. My 6 year old can't put his bedding on so that it's comfortable, he tries bless him but it's just not the same as being tucked in. And it's 6am, she's obviously just an early riser.

He needs to knock it off or leave in my opinion, I couldn't be doing with that. Starting the day with his shouting and ranting.

What a hypocrite he is. Putting her in time out for a shriek she is absentmindedly copying and then yelling at you and laying into you.

How confusing for her. Do as I say and not as I do. What a prick, my heart aches too

@Misskg1982 sorry to hear about what’s going on with you. I was just wondering how you’re doing and if you’ve got anywhere with him. Hope you’re ok.
Of course you ‘baby her,’ she is a baby!

Oh my heart aches reading this.

I’m a teacher and an Early Years specialist. I work with 4 year olds, they can be tough but honestly his behaviour is abhorrent. He is not a good parent and I’m sorry to say that he is likely to be doing a lot of damage, both by shouting at her in a prolonged fashion (whilst she cries) and shouting at you in front of her. I’d question your assertion that this doesn’t come under abuse - there’s an element of emotional abuse to the disproportionate punishment and excessive shouting.

Responding to a still very young child who has woken up and is looking for comfort with such anger is really awful. What must that be teaching her about her dad, her own value and her own sense of safety in her own home?

@AliasGrape thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I need to hear this kind of thing and it’s why I came here. I’ve spent such a lot of time saying he shouldn’t act like that and reasoning with him but being told constantly that I’m wrong or overreacting and that he’s just trying to do the right thing and set boundaries has ended up with me questioning my own opinion. It really hurts me to see this sort of stuff but after so much time being told I’m intolerant of his ‘style’ of parenting and that I’m trying to impose my way of doing things, I frequently believe him. Or at least consider the possibility I’m entirely wrong

It is abuse. Of you and of you daughter.

GenGenGo hey so so... we had a talk again the other day as he shouted at her at 7am because she woke up and clearly he felt that was way to early. It lead to a big chat again about how he deals with her and he did spend the rest of the day being very condescending everytime she didn't listen to me first time round (which what child does that ever???). Anyways he has seemed calmer and hasn't shouted which is a little progress. I will continue to talk with him and hope that he takes things on board. I did bring up to him that we have to be aware of her own mental health regardless of her age. Yes a child needs discipline but shouting at a child because she's stepped in front of the tv isn't discipline.. come the f* on!!
How are you doing??

@GenGengo (sorry didn't tag you properly)