Just discovered 8yr old DD has stolen from shop - suggestions?

[grendel]

DD is just 8 and seems to be a happy, confident and well adjusted child.

I was shocked to be told by a friend in the summer that DD had been taking her DD's things over a period of time. Confronted my DD who promptly confessed, was abjectly apologetic and tearful. She had to give the things back (hair clips, trinkets, pens) and write a letter of apology. Also had no TV for a week as a reminder. Promised it would never happen again. I believed her.

Then a few weeks ago I spotted a trinket in her room that I didn't recognise. DD confessed again that she had taken it from same friend. I was really gutted. DD writes another letter of apology, she is grounded and I confiscate her (brand new and beloved) CD player for a week. Promised she would never do it again. I wanted to believe her.

On Sunday we visited NT place and she went into gift shop with DH to buy sweets. Following morning discovered tiny bottle of perfume with NT price sticker in her coat pocket. I am utterly stunned and feel helpless. She tearfully confessed again and says she doesn't know why she does it.

My plan is that she must take it back to the shop herself and apologise in person (unfortunately shop is not open again until Thurs). Also have confiscated CD player again.

But really don't know what else to do as our sanctions don't seem to have any effect. Should I try to shock her more by getting the (nice) local policewoman to come round and have a 'chat' about why stealing is wrong? Or should I get her to see a counsellor (a bit extreme I know!)? Or should I just chill out and put it down to a phase that they all go through?

DH and I are not v. strict about things like table manners but (I think) are v. firm on moral issues such as honesty, and consideration for other people so are completely floored by this behaviour.

Any suggestions or advice about how you have dealt with similar problems would be most welcome!

Poor you - what a nightmare. IME it's not a phase they all go through - maybe stealing something as a one-off to see if you can get away with it (I remember doing that), but not several times over a prolonged period. Is she worried/stressed about anything else - are friendships etc OK at school? Scary new teacher? The obviousness/wanting to be caught bit of her actions sort of suggest attention-seeking but I have no clues as to how you find out the "why?" bit.
The friendly policewoman chat sounds like a very good idea - but if that doesn't work then I would look into counselling.

That is quite tricky, grendel.

We had similar with dd1 when she was in Y1, but the shock treatment (similar to what you describe, apologising and returning the item) worked the first time.

If it's happened repeatedly it seems like there might be more going on -- is she jealous of said friend? Trying to hurt her? Feeling ignored or that other people have more nice stuff than her? If you can't extract a plausible explanation from her about her feelings and why she thinks she's done it, I think I might actually consider the counsellor option. Not sure the policewoman would work, given that you've tried the confrontation approach before.

Hope it sorts itself out.

This is not normal and if it happened to me i would assume it is some sort of compusion she has that needs a bit of professional help to nip it in the bud.

You don't want this getting worse and more hidden and she starts stealing more 'adult' and expensive things as she gets older but hides from you because of the punishments that would come her way.

I just wanted to add that I think most children have probably taken something at some point, so it is a phase in that sense. I think the fact that your dd has been so persistent about it, plus the obviousness of it did she not attempt to hide the items in her room? would make me worry that there's a bit more to it.

Sorry - i didnt mean take her to a counsellor - i mean you yourself should seek advice from a pro at this stage as to what to do. i dont think its that serious that she needs assesment or something!

DD is very bright but is very much the youngest in her class (birthday end of August) so is quite emotionally immature compared to her friends. Gets frustrated and can't always express her emotions without loosing her temper. (Makes her sound a nightmare - usually she is a happy, articulate, charming child)
I don't know if this is behind taking things from her friend, who can certainly sometimes be a bit manipulative. Certainly she didn't need any of the things that she took - she has plenty of similar stuff of her own at home.

But when we were at the NT shop on Sunday she was just with DH and me and was happy and sunny and normal. I just can't believe she took the perfume.

Am starting to be worried now by all the 'this is normal' responses.

I meant

'starting to be worried by the 'this is not normal' responses.

Thanks EricL.

Perhaps I could talk to the head at her school to see if she has any suggestions.

Grendel, you've had some good advice here - can't help personally but will mail the link to another Mner who experienced similar with one of her dcs if I recall.
I think as others have said, the persistency, and the inability of your dd to explain why she is doing this, do warrant a bit of further investigation.
Good luck

As it is the third time she has had to be confronted I think a gentle but sharp shock might be useful, as other punishments haven't worked yet. I like the idea of havig the local policewoman or a community police officer calling round for a quiet chat.

Poor old dd and you. I think I would try not to see the shoplifting as a continuum of the pilfering from the friend, for the moment at least. I don't think they are the same sort of act at all and I think it may be a big mistake to start thinking of this as a big thieving problem at this stage. So far it's a social skills problem with one friend and a shoplifting experiment which needs to be clearly addressed but is probably a test of the boundaries.

If she was stealing from loads of friends willy nilly it'd be different but it sounds like it's just this one girl and maybe there's more to it than meets the eye- other child could be nasty in ways you don't know about or be one of those kids who gives away toys sometimes or just (from your daughter's pov) an annoying perfect child type who makes her feel a bit insecure. Are the kids friends because you and the mum are friends or vice versa? (I always hated my mum's friend's children and found her very reluctant to hear my views on their shortcomings. Stealing from them would have been a very good way to get her to notice that we weren't good together just because she liked their mums!) Be that as it may, maybe you could tell your daughter that she will not be allowed to play with the other girl if she takes anything else from her? Perhaps your daughter is miserable with this kid in some way and hoping that you will intervene in such a way so she doesn't have to see her so often? Even if this is bollocks and she loves this kid dearly, this might be a good boundary idea? Play nice with your friend or don't play at all type of thing?

As for the shoplifting experiment- read her the riot act! Be tough on making her return the stuff, make her apologise in person not in writing and tell her that if it ever happens again she will have to wait outside the shops for you for the next 6 months because you can't trust her not to take stuff. Also tell her often and always at least once a day if not more that you love her to pieces and she is not a monster but a great and wonderful and brilliant and beautiful and clever kid who is the apple of your eye.

Thank-you ScummyMummy for your good sense about the stealing from friend and the shoplifting perhaps not being related.

You have stiffened my trembling lower lip.

She plays round at the friends house all the time (they have 4 DDs and and my DD is an only child). They moved in a few doors away 18 months ago and my DD is now almost like one of the family, which made the stealing even more embarrassing. I did wonder whether she sees them as surrogate siblings and the stealing was just the sort of nicking stuff that I used to do to annoy my brother.
When DD was caught stealing from the friend a second time she was grounded from playing there for a week PLUS I introduced a rule that she must never bring anything at all (not even a hair tie) back from their house, even if they gave it to her, to prevent any possible misunderstandings.

Sigh.

I've arranged to have a meeting with the Head at her school tomorrow to see if she has any ideas.

Grendel- are there problems at school making it important to involve the head or is she likely to have very wise advice? If this was me, I must say I would steer very clear of involving the school without good reason. I think it's v important not to overreact here. She's a good kid who's behaved badly (as we all do sometimes) and she needs to be told exactly what she did wrong and how she can make amends. She might find it highly mortifying for her teachers to know and it's not a school issue really. I honestly think this is well on the spectrum of normal, not something to go mad with worry about. This is bad behaviour pure and simple, imo, not an indication that your lovely daughter is a pariah. You don't want to give dd the message that you are frantic with worry, don't know what to do and think she has a big problem. You want to give her the message that she has been well out of order, that this is not on and that she can make up for it and not do it again. The other thing I would consider looking at is being a bit stricter generally. Children have to break the rules to see what they are and why they matter and if you are v laid back (I am too) and don't make a big issue of the small stuff maybe dd has to go a bit further than your average kid to see test you and see where she is?

Thank you for your wise words again SM.

Don't worry, I'm not about to drag DD to see the Head. I was just going to check whether there were any problems at school that I was not aware of, and also how she would recommend dealing with it (since I only have experience with one child and she has experience with 100s!)

DD won't know I've seen Head and I expect Head to keep our conversation confidential.

I also think you are right about the need to be stricter generally. Her once cute and witty comments have somehow recently morphed into rudeness and backchat. Back to the naughty step?