Starting to wish we’d never had kids.

[Muddytoes1]

I love them beyond measure but that just makes it worse. I just feel like such a crap parent. Dd 4 completely rules the roost and is very aggressive if she is not always the centre of attention or getting her own way. We’ve tried so hard as much as possible to feed them well, give them plenty of our attention, time and love, plenty of sleep, not too much screen time, consistent routines and consequences etc. We’ve read everything, spoken to HVs, family etc to ask what we should be doing better but they all say we are doing great and if they have tips they are minor and not always practical. E.g HV saying if she kicks off you have to completely ignore her as she’s doing it for attention but how do you ignore someone who then follows you around hitting you and smashing the place up. When people have suggested ‘cracking down’ or ‘not letting her get away with that’ they have no practical suggestions of what that means. There is no consequence she cares about more that the attention. Not giving treats, cutting tv time etc does not work. She is of course an angel at nursery so it’s definitely a problem with us. I feel so sad as everyone I know constantly talks about they children being hard work but bringing them so much joy whereas I just feel stressed around her and terrified that our failure will hurt her in the long run. I worry about her so much and just want her to grow up into a happy decent human being but so scared she won’t. She has a 1 year old sister and I’m so worried about her being in this horrible environment. Dh is amazing but really struggles too. Not looking for advice. Honestly we’ve had it all. Just looking for somewhere to vent.

Contact your children's centre and ask if the county council offer Triple P parenting courses (for free). You can self refer. I work with children but my own were very different for me. This course helped affirm the good parts of my parenting and help me reestablish a good relationship with my children so we could move forward. Hope it helps

@RandomMess thank you x
@ZoChan thank you, the HV didn’t mention anything like that when I spoke to her but I will call and see if there is anything like that here.

@Muddytoes1 it's an Australian course which you can sign up to by yourself online (i think). My council offered it for free. It's the course parents of children with suspected SEN have to take before any further steps are taken to get extra support at school etc. But there's a variety of people who go on it, basically those who want their relationship with their children to improve.

I did the triple p course before they'd take my child's ASD diagnosis any further. It did t really help me but the other parents found it very helpful indeed, or so they said.

If it's any comfort to you, DS1 was like this- I was pregnant with DS2 and had to turn my back on him, even shut myself in the bathroom, because I couldn't reach around my belly to fend him off.

He's a delightful young man now. It's not forever, and you can turn it around.

Something that may help is to remember 'all behaviour is communication'. Somehow or other, your DC is unable to manage her behaviour/emotions, and is showing you how she feels.

Try and schedule really lovely, positive times that you do whatever happens- short though! Not day trips, 20 mins doing each other's nail varnish or something. No threatening to take it away. Those times will build your relationship so you can survive the trickier times. Maybe 20 mins after breakfast, or whenever suits. She needs the same with her dad, too.

4yo's behaviour sounds very difficult to deal with and if I'm honest, worse than normal. I'm not saying this to make out you're bad parents - from what you've described I don't think that's the issue. DS1 was like this when he was 4 and I just thought it was me or normal toddler behaviour. I wish in hindsight I'd known that it wasn't normal and sought help because he was diagnosed at 10 with ADHD and I could have been using better strategies with him right from then. It's extremely draining to deal with this kind of thing and it does affect your relationship with them which then just makes everything worse. So don't be afraid to ask for help/referral. If it's a box ticking parenting course first then fine.

I echo what a PP has said- behaviour is a form of communication. I think the suggestion of scheduling regular, but short, 1:1 is great- and you can google 'love bombing' too. I recently joined an online group for 'peaceful parenting' and have found some good suggestions on that forum (facebook based) for some things I am finding tricky with my toddler, so perhaps worth a look on there too?
Your DD is very young still, but have there been any suggestions/concerns raised by nursery/pre-school around speech and language delays? Children will often hit out when they don't have any other way of communicating their feelings. Might be worth looking into any materials you can get online that help teach her some emotion words that she can use so when she gets really cross you can talk her through her emotions more easily? Good luck- remember this too shall pass!

You may have got into a circle of negativity.

She does an unwanted behaviour , you react to it , you're busy with stuff, her siblings etc she's craving attention, she does an unwanted behaviour , she gets your attention , I know I'll do that behaviour again as I get my mums attention even if it's negative. It keeps going. You have so little time as dealing with behaviour and the rest of life's stuff no time for positive time.

Ignore behaviour. But react to good behaviour only. Oh wow you're really concentrating on that toy. I like the sound of that game.

Then join in with her even if you don't really have the time. Spend 5 mins playing it with her and tell her how much you enjoyed it.

You will need to remind yourself constantly to do it. Over time she won't need to kick off.

Read ‘TheExplosive Child’

Dd was like this, when we got to 8 or 9, it became obvious it was all down to anxiety and a desire to control.

She’s 14 now and completely different. Still has bits of anxiety and can get grumpy. Nothing like she was though.

Honestly I think you've just had really crap advice from the HV! Take a look at the brilliant book "How to talk so small children listen". Or Alfie Kohn "Unconditional Parenting". Ignoring meltdowns where the child is genuinely upset or distressed (even if we as adults think it's over a stupid or minor thing) does not work at all, and over time only makes your relationship worse. Likewise with using bribes etc. These books explain really well that what can help is to empathise with what the child is upset about, even if that doesn't mean condoning the behaviour.

It will get better. My dd struggles with emotional regulation too and follows me round hitting me, shouting horrible things to me and the other dc as you describe. She does it much less now she’s 9.

It has been tough at times but try not to take it personally.

When you say she’s an angel at nursery - so was mine but she was in fact worn out and not dealing with social situations and emotions she couldn’t resolve so it looked like she was kicking off about not getting what she wanted from me but really the ‘cause’ was not dealing well with things earlier in the day.

If you see the behaviour as a release of pressure it’s easier to deal with.

I agree with PP's recommendation of How to Talk so Little Kids Will Listen. It gives lots of really great tips.

Oh yes that's the correct title!!

You've bent over backwards too far, that's all

Lean further forward

I can't advice, mine is only young so ask i have are theories for when she's older. But perhaps you could find some reading material? There's a parenting philosophy called gentle parenting which is the opposite of cracking down, or ignoring behaviour (never understood this, if you ignore a problem, how often does it go away?)

I can't say if it or any way works obviously. But seeing as one way hasn't worked for you maybe find others?

I work in a nursery. What I can say (and I find myself saying it a lot to parents who complain about their child’s behaviour at home), is that at Nursery our expectations are clear, rules are very few but rigidly kept to, and we are 100% consistent. So basically the kids always know exactly where they stand. Doesn’t stop them trying to push the boundaries to try their luck now and again, but they quickly settle down when we stand firm.
I wonder if you have been over complicating things and trying too hard?
Oh and for physical violence/ lashing out we always put the child away from everyone else for a short while, for them to calm down, and to diffuse the situation. Then we talk about how they feel and how they made everyone else feel. Then they have to apologise to whoever they hurt.

@fonxey I think the idea is that children naturally (and developmentally appropriately) have a need for a certain amount of power / attention / autonomy each day-like a 'sense of power/self-efficacy' bucket. If they never get to fill it they act out- the behaviour is a form of communication. Not just 'a problem'. So the more we listen to them, take them seriously, understand the despair they are really communicating (and if we understand it like this of course there's no need for punishment- the behaviour is actually more like a cry for help), the more 'seen' they will feel and have less need to act up.

Read Warwick Dyer's book and watch his shows. He is brilliant and applying his techniques works.

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince I've just started reading The Explosive Child. My daughter is just 9 and has definitely shown sign of anxiety which is then exhibited as controlling/angry behaviour. She has a health condition that has fuelled this anxiety largely. The thing I struggle with is the times when things seem fine and there shouldn't be any of this behaviour and then shw explodes. We had a friend over today who is nearly 6 (my DDs are 5 and 9). My DD who is 9 was shouting at the other 2, then had a complete meltdown because they wouldn't play with her and pulled her friend's hair. I really thought this behaviour would be gone by age 9. . So glad to hear your DD is doing better.

Sorry to hijack the thread @Muddytoes1. No suggestions from me, just sympathy. I know what it is like. Sounds like you and your partner are a good team.

DD was appalling at 4. Fine at nursery, horrific at home.

She’s now 7 and although she is still harder work than the average child (she turned out to have some SN) it is night and day different and she is mostly lovely. When she was 4 I never thought I’d say that and was in a flat spin about what our lives had become. Also had toddler.

Hang in there.

How is her sleep? Tiredness was a big part of the problem with DD, which is partly why she behaved well at nursery (morning) and terribly at home (afternoon, exhausted from nursery).

The Explosive Child is a good shout, although the strategies it recommends probably need your child to be a bit older than 4, as I recall.

Oh and to be blunt, ignore posters who say you simply need to ignore the bad behaviour (impossible if they are kicking you, their sibling, the walls) or that you just need to be firmer and more consistent (I was 100% firm and consistent and it still did not work, DD did not learn to behave better because she could not self regulate).

Some children find self regulation much, much harder than others, and it takes them a lot longer to learn how to calm down and how to think about anything except how they feel in that moment.

Staying calm yourself is definitely important though. I wasn’t always very good at that.

My son is an adult now but he has asd. He struggled with emotions and could be explosive at times. One thing that actually helped both of us when he was lashing out was for me to put my arms around him and just hold him. He could thrash about a bit without damaging anything or his little sister and he also seemed to feel safer and calmed quicker. It may not work but could be worth a try.

Yes my dd also has anxiety and autistic traits - on wait list. I did like explosive child but it is about finding solutions together and that works well at 9, not so much when they are screaming a shop down at 4.

I’m not sure what worked at 4 really, not much seemed to! My other dc we setup a tent and she is good at running off into it and calming down when she loses her temper but I doubt that would’ve worked for my elder one as she won’t leave you.