Extremely irritated by eldest DC most of the time.

[Babiecakes]

Eldest DC is, I think, an irritating child in general. I see other kids only being able to tolerate her energy is small doses and other adults will comment on her incessant talking and loud behaviour, however they also comment on how lovely and kind she is, something I love about her. However, mostly, I just feel irritated by her.
But, aren't I supposed to feel differently? Aren't I supposed to be more of an advocate for her?
The truth is, I find her irritating most of the time and I am exhausted by her energy. Here is a list of the main behaviours that I find irritating and I'd like to know if I'm being unkind to find them so:
-Talks constantly. I can't even have a conversation with her father without her involving herself, butting in and giving an opinion, or trying to change the subject. She narrates even whilst playing by herself and asks constant questions. She seems to be in her own world, we could be taking in a breathtaking view on a family day trip and she will be on her own agenda, wittering on about a particular toy or activity. She seems to express every thought in her head. Meal times are awful. She will stop every few minutes to say "have I eaten enough yet?" And no matter how many times I tell her to regulate her own eating and decide for herself, she still pesters me with these constant questions.

-No volume control at all. She shouts all the time and even when I pull her up on it, only lowers her voice for a matter of seconds before being loud again.

-Slams her feet loudly on the ground as she runs/walks.

• Presses buttons, switches, messes with things impulsively as if she just has to grab everything.

• can't follow instructions.

• Fidgety and jumpy. I can't have her in bed with me if she wakes in the night as she doesn't keep still. This saddens me as I can share a bed with her younger sibling easily if he wakes in the night and I enjoy it, but with her, I just get no sleep and end up feeling annoyed with her.

Even her grandmother has started to say that she's not surprised that her younger sibling is smacking her as he just can't get a word in. It's a shame as eldest DC is so gentle towards him. Her other grandmother took her on a little holiday for a few days last summer and she told me that she came home feeling guilty for the amount of times she had snapped at her due to her "being so constant." She seems to have her own agenda all the time, will play a different game to the peers she's playing with and not join in appropriately, will be talking about something different during an activity she has to concentrate on etc.
So I don't think it's entirely me. I think she is very annoying, but I can't go on snapping at her and feeling like I want to burst into tears through overwhelm at being in her company. She can sit still and quietly (screen time is perfect for this) but any other "fun" activity which requires human interaction just feels completely overwhelming.
Any advice or thoughts?

Sounds exhausting op, how old is she? Have school expressed any concerns?

Shes 7.
I've been into school and they are saying that she's "lovely" and just has a lot of thoughts in her head and a strong enthusiasm to know and learn things.

Yet, they say that she does struggle to follow instructions. They have told me not to worry and that she is just very imaginative. They aren't joining up the dots like I am though. I have wondered about ADHD. But she can sit calmly at times so I'm not sure. In comparison, her peers follow instructions much more easily, having had a small group over to the garden for a playdate recently, it was obvious. I was shocked that with her friends, they followed and listened so much more easily.

How much exercise is she getting? Perhaps a very physical, involved hobby that will get her hours of exercise would help. It may also help her to learn to focus and follow instructions.

Gymnastics or swimming spring to mind- maybe both until one becomes all consuming. Or musical theatre so she can get some of the 'loud' out.

Hello @Babiecakes - we're just moving this over to Parenting for you now.

Hi, just wanted to say that your daughter sounds EXACTLY like my son, and he has autism. I would ask for an assesment :)

Sounds a lot like my sister as a child. My sister was eventually diagnosed with Asperger's in her 20s. She was so high functioning that is was missed throughout her childhood but my word it was always clear that she was somehow different!

She sounds a lot like my dc who has ADHD.
But it could several different things or nothing.
I would look at getting an assessment but they have long waiting lists in many areas.

I would press for an assessment, sounds like she could be on the autism spectrum

Please dont let your other child hit her, doesnt matter on the reasons

She has similarities to my son who is 8 and has high functioning autism. I'd look for an assessment.

How old is her little brother? Can you play turn-taking games as a family (e.g. junior monopoly) or is that too difficult for her?

Sounds like my friends DD and she is being assessed for ADHD. I really feel for you - very tiring.

Those of you who have children diagnosed with ADHD/Autism, what coping strategies have you learned? What do you do about their behaviours?

My daughter would also be extremely high functioning, which is why I think, her teachers just put it all down to enthusiasm.

@Babiecakes that was me as a child. ASD too.

My family got me into loads of sports. I had/have no/very few friends and even now (late 30s) people find me "too much".

My advice would be find something she will be obsessed with. Animals will definitely work [careful about horses, it will ruin your budget]. Translations/books (when she gets older). TV series, movies, books, fantasy, engineering/building models of things, learning a language (an odd one like arabic, russian, farsi).

But also she needs to learn to be a bit politer. She is most probably above average smart. I would constantly remind her that butting into a conversation is wrong. I would spend a lot of time asking for her opinions about random things as you go about your day.

Also if you have time, read a book called Aspergirl. Will help.

DS is very bright and does well academically at school although he does drive some of his teachers a little nuts at times.
With regards to food I just tell him how many veggies he has to eat and sometimes have to tell him when he has eaten enough sweet food.
We just let him chat on about his latest obsession, there will be another one along in a few weeks.
I do lots of count downs to let him know when one activity is going to end and another one start.
We just keep coaching about everyone having a time to talk, he is getting better about this slowly, even if he isn't always so much listening as waiting until he can talk again.
The button pushing got better with age but he has pushed some really inappropriate buttons over the years.

My sister is now grown up and has a full time job, a partner, lots of friends. It's a real turn around from childhood where her classmates couldn't cope with her.

So much coaching on behaviour from my parents. Constantly practicing taking turns in a conversation, especially meal times. A few very structured sports hobbies that would make you tired but meant to you had to follow instructions (e.g. karate lessons).

Trickier now with covid, but at the time lots of family friends with children would come over and play under supervision.

For repetitive questions (like "have I eaten enough") my mother would always reply: "well, have you?"

And for interruptions, "darling, we were listening to [other person]. Go on, [other person]."

But, "shut up, [sister's name]" was a pretty constant refrain on road trips! She would just babble on about her latest obsession for hours.

It could also be tiring because although she could monologue for ever about her chosen topics, it would take her time to process that other people were talking back and what they were saying. You haven't mentioned this with your DD but it happened at lot with my sister:

"What day of the week do you have PE?"

"... huh?"

"I said, what d-"

"Tuesday."

Exhausting!

Might be worthwhile googling Dyspraxia.
My son has it.Used to watch tv hanging upside down,gets distracted very easily,very aware of his surroundings.

Another adult version of her here too!

Diagnosed finally at 30 with ADHD and goodness me what a relief!

Turns out my parents' coping strategies (most of which other people have outlined above) were pretty good, despite them just thinking I was a bit of a gobshite and being a bit frustrated that they couldn't really get help anywhere because I was very 'good' - polite, high achiever, never meant to be annoying - so I flew under the radar a bit.

Definitely think worth pursuing some investigations for it and maybe in the meantime reading up on coping strategies for kids with ADHD.

Massively agree with encouraging hobbies and obsessions. My attention span seemed non existent but when something grabbed me I would be absolutely single minded about it - in my case it was usually some sort of time in history or topic rather than a hobby.

I'm really pleased I've kept that as an adult as I still get so excited and passionate about the most random stuff, then move on to another a few weeks later, but it brings me loads of joy! So remember some of the attributes will be things that end up being really positive.

I also run my own business now as I've paid my dues grafting for others in a pretty cut throat industry and I want to work on stuff I am genuinely excited about in the same industry but on my terms.

Lots of positives but I appreciate its hard to see that in the thick of it, my parents probably could have written your post when I was about 8!

Thanks so much for the stories and tips!
@worstwitch18- YES to the delayed processing time when others are speaking! She does this all the time. I even sent her for a hearing test, which came back normal. When she's monologue-ing she has so much to say and so many thoughts to express, that she's also developed a stammer.

Her obsessions are exhausting as they become all consuming for her. It's odd though that once she's moved on to another obsession, she literally can't stand you to even mention the previous one.

I think she needs a proper medical assessment, but with Covid, it doesn't seem likely any time soon. For now, I'll buy some books and get clued up. Sometimes, I think I do a good job of coaching her to turn-take etc and other times, I'm so exasperated that it comes out differently:
"Oh for heaven sake, give it a rest!"

@babiecakes

Yes I would ask for an assessment. It's often much harder to spot in girls as their symptoms are often misinterpreted.

She sounds hard work, but also sounds like someone who, once has some sort of diagnosis, will really flourish. Being chatty and curious can be great. Just need to make sure being chatty and curious is done in the right way!

Yep, another one who thinks she sounds very familiar! DS is 9 and was diagnosed with ASD and ADHD when he was 7. He will monologue for what feel like hours on his favourite subjects (Lego, engineering, fairground rides and physics) with no regard to whether anyone else is interested. Often at high volume! The not being able to judge if they’re full after eating can be an autism thing; apparently it’s due to a wonky interoceptive system.

Luckily DH shares some of his interests, so will listen happily. DD and I often just tune him out; I’m very good at saying “really?” and “oh wow!” when he pauses for breath , but otherwise lots of reminding him it’s someone else’s turn to speak. It does make it easier to tolerate when you accept that it’s not their fault. DS is aware of his diagnosis and knows that we’re trying to help him.

One thing that did leap out at me from your OP is that you need to have a word with her grandmother! Excusing a boy hitting a girl because she talks too much is terrible, even if they are siblings.

She sounds like my son who has autism. If I'm honest, I still find him irritating even now he's 15.

He's exhausting - no volume control, slams things, drags his feet, interrupts, talks constantly, changes the subject abruptly, fidgets...

But he's the kindest person in the family and school say he's a delight (he is in a SN school though). However, I've noticed even his school reports lately detail the need for him to be quiet, stop moving and listen to instructions!

Good luck. It's very hard.

DS is like this at 9 but I don't think he has ADHD/ASD. Some children do have much more energy than others and when I have spoken to other parents it seems pretty normal (for boys anyway) to rabbit on for hours about computer games without understanding that the grown ups really aren't interested. I think age 7 is pretty young to understand that other people don't necessarily want to hear about the things that interest you. On the other hand when my son and a bunch of friends get together they are completely interested in discussing roblox!
My husband has a high functioning ASD but he was not at all like DS as a child and we have repeatedly looked for ASD in DS but there are so many ways in which he is neutrotypical. He does however have a lot of energy. I was also very fidgety as a child and never sat still but definitely not ASD/ADHD.
Whilst your daughter may have ADHD/ASD I just wanted to say that there is such a wide range of behaviour in children that all of these things all sound completely normal and don't necessarily point to ADHD/ASD. Maybe worth reading up on the other traits and seeing how many you think she might have.

So I just want to say, even if you are fairly confident that your DD meets the criteria there is still some debate about whether or not to officially diagnose.

It can bring benefits in terms of educational help but it can also close doors to careers (e.g. you cannot join the army with an ASD diagnosis in some countries). My family has many autistic people and one with ADHD- but many siblings/cousins/etc with the same traits have opted not to pursue diagnosis as they believe it will not add value to their lives.

I don't want to put you off! My immediate family did choose the formal assessment route for my sister. But if you cannot get her assessed... it is not necessarily terrible. But have a look at resources for parenting children with these traits, it might have some useful advice.

She sounds very much like my 13 yo DD who has ADHD and dyspraxia. If so, she really can't help the behaviour you are finding so irritating.

The problem is that children with ADHD get left out & rejected by others because they are a PITA, but they are also sensitive and prone to depression. So pushing her away, especially when there is an NT sibling, is going to make it worse.

You need to find a way to tune her out, while saying yes and really, so she thinks you are listening, and find an outlet for her energy. Mine hated karate but it's worth a try. Also climbing, gymnastics, trampolining, cheerleading, dancing, perhaps even running. Covid restrictions aside, if nothing else it gives you a break from her for an hour or so.