Mum undermining me when trying to discipline

[Cherryrainbow]

Just a random vent. I'm having issues with my son not listening to me and backchat (his dad who has him 50% of the time is also dealing with this) and I'm trying to be tougher with discipline and consequences e.g to stop saying 10 times if u carry on with this this will happen and it doesn't, I want to enforce it.

At my mum's she always let's my son get away with stuff and undermines me when I tell him off. Today I said several times if you keep doing such and such we aren't visiting nana next week and even she said at one point right you're not visiting next week. He kept on. I put my foot down. And then my mum said "don't worry if you're good this weekend mum will change her mind and you can come over". I said no, I told him he's not coming over and gave him plenty of warnings, this is the consequence. Now she's being in a mood with me and says I'm too harsh on him.

It's driving me mad cos I'm fed up of literally every one moaning that my son can't handle discipline/consequences and when I do try and follow through I'm the bad guy or it's like well you don't have to listen to mum anyway, it doesn't matter.

My bf who we live with is very clear about how he thinks I need to be more assertive cos he gets irritated with my sons ways and tbh I'm tired of always being ignored by my son. I can't say anything to my bf cos he's just going to say to grow a pair basically.

Unfortunately, you need to grow a pair, basically.

How old is your son!?

If you can't trust your mum to be on board, then stay away from her for the time being, and let her know why.

Also, consequences like "next week you can't do such and such" are pointless, you need the consequence to be immediate. As in "we're leaving now" and then go.

Also, consequences like "next week you can't do such and such" are pointless, you need the consequence to be immediate. As in "we're leaving now" and then go.

This.

Natural, immediate consequences that you follow through on. Leaving nana's in that case. Punishments for next week are counterproductive.

He's 6 almost 7. I can see your points about not looking at stuff so far ahead.

At home I do immediate stuff like time out, time off the ps4 (It has a 1 hour timer on it normally), so I will stick more with things like that.

6 is pretty young to have access to a PS4 - what is he playing?

Sonic, little big planet and recently spongebob squarepants. There are restrictions put on his user (it's a family console, so there's different user logins) so he can't play games older than suitable for his age or go over the time limit, and either me or my bf is there when he plays on the ps4 and he asks if he can go on it, he doesnt use it everyday.

If he has a punishment hanging over him for next week (not visiting his nana) then there’s no incentive for him to behave right now. Can you wipe the slate clean every morning?
6 is young for a consequence next week.

He's with his dad now until Saturday morning, I've let it go to wipe slate clean.

My son isnt bothered and forgot about it straight away (not that he listened in first place) so he knows he's not being punished, he knows he will be seeing his nana this Sunday, there's nothing hanging over him. He's verbal enough all the time let alone today about what I say doesn't matter. I might as well have been reading the phone book at the time for all the effect it had lol.

Have a read of How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk

Brilliant book and it works.

@MrsTerryPratchett thanks I've looked it up on Amazon now x

If he misbehaves at Nanna's house or anywhere else he likes being the consequence is going straight home and missing out!

A good book a read was "Discipline without shouting or spanking" helps you identify natural consequences and giving 2 options for them to choose. Love "how to talk so kids..." as well.

I think you chose the wrong punishment, it's probably more a punishment for your mum if sh'es not seen him much due to lockdown hence her trying to overturn your decision.

At six I found a token economy system worked really well to help tackle some persistent behaviours. It's positive reinforcement rather than negative so it doesn't feel like you're fighting with them all the time.

What I did first was work out what the tokens would be - we did screen time tickets which DS could trade in for an allocation of screen time. No tickets, no screen time (so his screen time immediately became dependent on his behaviour). Some people prefer "points" which can be traded for a choice of things - you could make a "shop" with different rewards such as playstation time, later bedtime, special dessert, cinema trip, (all for different costs so he can save up for a bigger one) - whatever - but they have to be things he can't just choose to do any time, they have to be exclusive to the reward system. If you decide to put playstation time in there, for example, it needs to be the only way he can access playstation time.

Anyway, once you've decided on your reward idea you decide which behaviours you want to work on. Don't pick loads of things, just a few to focus on for now. You mentioned in your OP not listening (later clarified as keeps doing stuff he's been asked to stop) and backchat. So what you do is redefine this to what you WANT - he needs to do as he's asked straight away - and speak respectfully. Be prepared to explain to him exactly what it is that you mean, preferably using positive statements "Do/say THIS" rather than negative "DON'T do/say that" and preferably defining things like "straight away" - literally as soon as you've said it? Does he need to acknowledge the request, but saying "when I've finished this" is OK? By a count of 3? Have a think about it yourself, whether it's age appropriate or too big of a stretch from where he currently is etc. Ideally, collaborate with his dad and have your rules be the same.

This has two purposes - it tells him exactly what you expect, and it also primes you to start looking for examples of him behaving well. So when he does something straight away you can say "Well done DS, good listening!"

At the end of the day you go through each behaviour point he's meant to be hitting and tell him which ones he's achieved and therefore the amount of tickets he has earned for the next day. I found you don't need to focus on the ones he didn't get. He knows he didn't get them, that's enough. It means you can end every day with praise even if he only managed one (if he's commonly not even managing one, you might need to look at whether your expectations are too high.) If he asks why he didn't get one, then explain the behaviour that caused him not to get it. You can then talk about what he can do to try and get tomorrow.

During the day if you see him start to engage in behaviour which will lose him a ticket you can use the positive language that you've identified earlier to warn him "That isn't very respectful language, is it? Can you think of a better way to say it?"

Another book recommendation is Sarah ocwell-Smith "gentle discipline", a lot of her books are available as audiobooks on audible if you don't have the time to sit down and read.

It would also be helpful if you and ex discuss consequences for behaviour so it's applied as consistently as possible, obviously he can have different rules in different homes but as you have good communication/co-parenting make the most of it.

Have you discussed why he is not listening and back chatting, is it new behaviour? Why is your bf irritated and telling you to be more assertive? I only ask because sometimes things become magnified if we feel under pressure.

Although your mum should not undermine you neither should your boyfriend by telling you to grow a pair.

Do you have any examples. What is his behaviour like generally? I have certainly seen a change in attitude in my 6 year old since lockdown, he is more frustrated and has definitely pushed some boundaries.

I agree with others that consequences need to be measured and more immediate.

@Cherryrainbow, in your first post you said “I told him several times to stop” that’s were you are falling down here. You tell him once and remind him that’s his one warning and you tell him what happens if he’s continues. And the next time he does it, you should tell him he won’t be back next week and stick to it. To be fair I would have told him he was going home if he done it again and I would have followed through if he did, just to show you are serious. Also, I would be putting him in timeout in your mums because you are sending a message that he can get away with more there by not doing timeout there.

I dont like the reward system. Kids should listen, end of. Not just do it for a reward.
A 'next week' punishment wont work for a 6 year old. But like pp, i would have just left.
I warn my child once, then the second misbehavior i let them know the consequence there will be if they continue (we will leave nanas if you dont stop it).
If he does it again, just calmly get up, get dressed and take him home. It has to be a consequence that really sucks for him at that moment (it might suck for you too) and it should be related to the misbehaviour. So if he throws food around, take it away/no dessert/etc.
If he doesnt listen when away from home, then go home...
DS is 6 now and i have left places many times. Sometimes it really sucked, because i really wanted to stay myself. But we havent left anywhere anymore in over a year.
My niece is the same age and will discuss her parents to death and gets her way every time. She doesnt listen to anyone.
Sister: if you do that again there will be no ice cream after lunch.
Niece does it again.
Sister: there will be no ice cream today for you.
Niece 5mins later: can i have an ice cream?
Sister: no
Niece: but bla bla bla
1h later sister: ok but just this once, i mean it this time!

Hey guys bit of an update. So yesterday we had a sass attack so I gave him a warning that if he continued he wouldn't have his ps4 time and then enforced it when he continued, so I'm learning to be more confident with the warnings and consequences.

His dad who is dealing with the same at his house downloaded an app where kids can get points for good behaviours and lose points for bad behaviours. So I've had a look at it myself to see what it's like.

For now it seems to be working, he found out he could get points for things like reading me a book, helping with chores etc. He lost some points for arguing and also being bossy with my oh's son when playing. He decided that his reward when he gets to 1000 points will be so he seems happy to work towards it for now.

We do generally get on really well as we play board games, do art together, movie nights etc. I think maybe some of the back chat is that he doesn't take me seriously when I tell him off because he says it's when I'm not being his friend.

"You're not my friend Mummy"

"Nope I'm your parent - OH & I make the decisions/rules in this house and Daddy makes them at his"

it's a common thing at his age just carry on being firm but fair.