Help - ds still not speaking much at Kindergarten

[debinaustria]

HI
We moved to Austria in 2005 when ds#2 was 3.5, he started Kindergarten then.(we speak to him in English at home) For the 1st year he had his elder brother in the same class so he only really spoke to him. Last year ds#1 moved onto school, and so without big brother's help his understanding of German came on really well, but he was still reluctant to talk. Part of this was down to lots or problems with his speech so we started seeing a Speech therapist. She works with him in English as that is his 1st language. That's going really well and I am seeing him improving slowly

But this morning at Kindergarten his teacher says he is still not talking much, either in German or English. At age 5.5 she says he must start to speak some more this year, . He does talk to his friends a little but appears reluctant to talk with the teacher. In this last year before school ds#1 was entitled to extra German lessons, I hope that ds#2 is also entitled and this will give him some more confidence.

Any advice?

Thanks

Deb

does he talk well at home?

may not get to computer today as have a very lively pre schooler

tons of luck

and are you and dh english ?
sorry for all the questions

ps

really going now, maybe he does not like the teacher?

we live in Switzerland. ds1 started KG with v. little German. He spoke v. little 1st year. Got v. sad report saying he didn't mix, rarely spoke, would sit in corner with back to others. I knew it was a language issue, as when we went to UK he was really pleased to talk to strange kids, adults, anyone who'd listen!!! Then in the summer holiday, something just clicked and his 2nd year was so different. It was unbelievable.

Then ds2 started kg 1 year later, so the brothers were reunited for a year, with a reasonaböle but still rather limited amount of German. Again, 1st year, very little interaction with the other kids , mirror image of his brother really, although they were in the same (one and only class) they were kept apart as much as possible, but he still didin't speak much.

Then again, 2nd year, total transformation, a bit less 'overnight' than his brother.

So going by my experience with 2 ds's , we had rocky 1st year both times & fab 2nd year both times. Thank goodness for the slow & gentle start, so all this is happening when they're at kg not school.

Ds2 is getting speech therapy too, but in German.
Does the teacher speak to him in Enfglish or German? Does his have much contact with local kids outside of KG (invaluable)

Don't like the sound of teacher saying he 'must' speak, how is she normally, our kg teacher was fab and she worked very hard to give him as much attention & even 1 to 1 as possible and was extremely gentle and encouragiing with him, really boosted him, saying he must give the image of a stern dominatrix wagging her finger and telling him to talk now. Hope it isn't like that.

ps we also spek english at home, but the boys have loads of contact with the swiss kids, always out playing. I'd say they are bilingual now, after 3 years

thanks for your messages

Yes we are both English, the boys mix a little out of school with the other children but there are no other children immediately around us so we have to arrange for children to come over. Then it always seems to be such a big thing here, not as casual as in the UK.

I spoke to the teacher again today after Kindergarten and she isn't as bad as I made out!! But I know that ds prefers the Nursery Nurse!! However I said what are we going to do and she said that she would work with him a little every day on a 1:1 basis, so fingers crossed.

I just hope that it doesn't put him off Kindergarten as it took him so long to settle.

Xcupcake - we got the German lessons through the Gemeinde, apparently in the last year of KG non German speakers are entitled to a certain amount of German lessons. There were no organised ones near enough to our village so the KG teacher said that if ds#1 stayed for 1 afternoon in a small group then she would work with him in German, it worked well but ds#2 has already said he doesn''t want to do that!!!

What problems are you having with KG? And where are you?

Deb

I opened your post because my ds (4) is kind of in the same situation. He is bilingual at home and has a new third language in nursery school since we emigrated a year or so ago. He is quiet in school but understands what is being said to him. And I have faith that he will talk when he is ready.

However as I was reading your thread it made me think about myself at that age. I wouldn't speak a word to anyone in school for years. They even called a schools psychiatrist to observe me but decided that there was nothing at all wrong with me, just that I didn't want to talk with anyone. Years later however we discovered that this is a particular condition, and I was quite relieved to find that it isn't uncommon either. Unfortunately I am having a blank mind moment now and can't remember the name of it. It is more prevalent in bilingual or multilingual children, which makes sense to me now as an adult - I think I felt unsure which language to use with people sometimes! I will try and remember what it is and post again. Not saying that it is that but you may want to read up about it in case ifywim! A particularly kind teacher started giving me lots of 1:1 attention when I was about 8 and that started to make me talk eventually, although it wasn't until I was about 10 that I felt 'free' to speak normally with other kids and teachers. Now it is difficult to get me to shut up........as you can tell!

Thanks Princess, sounds interesting, when you remember the name I'll have a read

Deb

got it! selective mutism

plenty about it on the internet. Wasn't much known about it 25 years ago.

Thanks

it is only a thought and unlikely to apply to your ds btw. Don't want to scare you! Your post just reminded me of myself at that age.

all the best

interesting topic for me. (and 1st one i replied to on this site) My son started kindergarten in Germany at around 2 and a few months , he learnt to sing songs in German (mainly Bob der Meister kann er dass schafen! from watching TV... I let him watch cartoons, pretend its educational, it probably is!) and talk a little. We moved to Milan before he was 3 and he is almost a year and a half in kindergarten here. He's almost 4.5yo. We speak English at home. Im from Scotland, my husband was English, he died when my son was 2 yo. :'-(
He also speaks english with his babysitter (she's jamican) and until recently, was very attacthed to his American teacher at school. So he picked up a bit of Italian in school in the first year but not tonnes. after 2mths holiday (5 weeks in UK, my mum said he was the chattiest of all kids in the football course he did), he is slowly getting back into it. Although he tries very well, he is not bi lingual or fluent yet. In fact his best friends at kg are Dutch twins! (I think foreigners stick together!) I can understand the selective mutism thing (never heard of it b4). sometimes feel like that myself, not sure what language to talk to who in, although many of my friends here are english speaking.

I think everyone has this idea that "kids pick up a 2nd language SOOO quickly, they'll be fluent in a few months". But its not really the case, unless p'haps, both parents spk different languages and always only spk monther toungue to them.

I can remember in Germany, a friend being worried cos her son was nearing 6 and his German wasnt yet great, but she moved back to N.Ireland so didnt really have to confront it.

language can be complicated for kids. My best friend is Thai American and tells me she only knew/spoke Thai until 5yo, then after going to school and speaking English, refused to speak Thai again. I wouldnt worry too much. Give him the most support with lessons etc but make it "happy" and fun.someone who you pay who coms to your house and plays with him maybe? When he gets to school, he will learnt it when in the situation.

not sure i've helped much here!

afd, thanks for your comments and so sorry to hear about your husband. What an awful time that must have been.

cupcake - we're in Muehlbach am Hochkoenig - a small village, 45 minutes south of Salzburg.How long have you been in Austria?

Deb

hi six months living

what are we allowed via the local council

as an ex pat

thanks debinaustria, yes, it was awful time... and when i think its time to move on, a bunch of letters with german postmarks arrive... from tax office, accountant, insurance companies, lawyers etc etc. makes me wish i had learnt German jusr that little bit better! (or son had learnt more than words to Bob Der Meister, hahaha)
well, better attempt to wade through some German beurocracy urgh urgh urgh...

afd full sympathies to you

I am so glad I found this thread! My story is very similar to yours but "younger" . We are Russian and live in USA. Our 19 month old who goes to daycare (and has been since he was 4 months, with a small break of few months but resumed again at 14 months) doesn't say any words.

We speak Russian at home (even though both my dh and I are fluent in English and use only English at work) and then DS hears only English in daycare.

Our pediatrician is concerned saying that ds should have a vocabulary of 20-30 words by 18 months. He isn't saying a word!

She referred us for a hearing test (which I think is a standard since I really don't think he has hearing problems, he reacts, responds, etc) and then we have a speech pathologist come in at the end of September to evaluate him. If his delay is more than 25% (which according to standards it is - his is more like 100% my poor baby) - then they will work with him to help him speak.

We've been talking to a lot of people and so far have been very reassured that it is a matter of time. It is true - children who're raised in multi-lingual environment begin speaking later, boys for whatever reasons in particular but at the end they catch up and you won't be able to tell a difference...

We're very hopeful and I will make sure to "watch this thread" so we can stay connected and I can tell you how he is progressing. Maybe we can swap advices and suggestions?

For example, we have been suggested that at least one of the parents should speak with the child in the primary language (meaning the language of the country you live in). The other parent may speak the native language = and even such combination should make a difference.

Any other advices?

Thank you in advance!

xcup please come onto the other thread

xcupcake - what do you mean by what are we entitled to? With reference to German lessons ?

katendmon - hope this thread gives us both some ideas. Since moving here ds was diagnosed with glue ear which had gone undiagnosed in the UK, hi hearing was way down to what it should have been and that has been part of the problem with the speech. However he has had his enlarged adenoids removed and his hearing is back to normal. The ST wouldn't see him until he had the results of the test to show that his hearing was OK. Maybe there is a problem with your little one's hearing?

let us know how you get on

Deb

Deb, it's very possible. He has had a number of inner ear infections as a follow up to his colds. At times they could spot some fluid behind an ear drum... So that's why they want to check his hearing.

Last time when they saw him (last week) he didn't have any fluid left so I am keeping my fingers crossed. If it is his hearing, he might have to have ear tubes put in to drain all the fluid out.

Of course deep in my heart I hope it is just the bi-lingual environment that's confusing him...

I will keep you updated. Please do the same.

Princesstoday (and others):

Selective Mutism (sometimes Elective Mutism) is the name of the condition, Selektiver Mutismus in German.

My middle child is affected. Our situation is the other way round, we live in the UK and speak German at home.

dbinaustria, I'm not saying your ds is affected by this, but you may like to google the term and look into it.
There was a Channel 4 programme about it last year which will also come up when you google.

The organisation SMIRA (they don't seem to have a website yet but there is a yahoo discussion group) is extremely helpful, should anyone consider contacting them.

Hi,

interesting thread.

Our DCs are German/English, we live in Germany so they are in German environment most of the time and we speak German at home. I speak English with them. DD is 5yo, DS is 3yo.

Both of them were a bit late in speaking, around 2.5 before they were using 2 or 3 word sentences. DD improved during the first year of Kita, DS has already come on well after starting Kita in August.

DD is fluent in both languages, although she is a bit more grounded in German as she speaks it more. From around 3ish they both started to understand that they speak 2 languages, and were able to translate if need be.

My experience is that our children started speaking later than the norm, but within the acceptable time frame. My friends DD is one day older than my son and speaks much better than him, she is also being brought up with 2 languages, German and Italian.

I believe that all children develop at their own pace and that there are no rules, I do not think that bilingual children speak later. Perhaps we pay more attention and the docs / teachers / friends are more likely to comment on our DCs speech development.

As long as there are no obvious physical problems then I would just carry on as you have been doing. Especially as the teacher has said that he speaks with his friends, he obviously can speak if he wants to.

katendmom
At 18 mths your DS is far too young to say that he is behind in his speech development. It is good that you are having his hearing checked, rule that one out first. Our DS was not speaking at that age either.

I don't know about speaking English with your DS, I would be inclined to stick to Russian, the older he gets the more English he will be hearing anyway. The "minority" language is the one that will be more difficult for him to keep up.

Just back from dropping Tristan off at KG, e walked in and spoke to the Nursery Nurse( who he really likes) about his Yu - gi - oh cards in German. She didn't understand him at 1st so he tried again and then also told her that he played the game with his brother. YIPPEE

I saw the teacher on the way out and informed her that he had just spoken a few sentences to the other Tante.

Deb

Deb, that's great~ So happy for your little one - I am sure it's the begining of a major break-through for him .

kindersurprise, I actually agree with you!~ I was a bit taken back when my son's doctor said that at his age (18 months then) he should have a vocabluary of 20-30 words! Well, he is meeting a speach pathologist on the 25th of September - I am interested to see how they'll test him and what they say.

Next Tue, if all goes well and DS doesn't get sick with another cold, we have a hearing test because they want to rule out hearing problems, like glue ear. I'll let you guys know what we find out.