Perfect prep, yay or nay?!

[Fivebyfive2]

Hi! My ds is almost 10 weeks and we combi feed at the moment. Recently we're giving more bottles because it's becoming more and more difficult to breastfeed him. I want to carry on for as long as possible if I can, but am also looking into options in case we end up swapping over to just bottle /formula feeds. One big thing I'm worried about is bottle prep, especially at night as ds can go from 0 to 60 in a blink if he's hungry and at the moment preparing bottles fresh with the kettle can be a tad stressful! But I know current guidelines say to do this and not make up in advance.

Have thought about a perfect prep but heard mixed things. Some say it's a godsend, but am a bit worried; at our NCT course we were advised they're not safe because the hot shot can create hot pockets in the bottles?? Someone also mentioned hygiene, but I'd assumed if we cleaned it regularly, it would be OK??

Sorry I probably sound clueless and a bit neurotic/pfb about it all!!

www.who.int/foodsafety/publications/micro/PIF_Bottle_en.pdf

OMG a million times YES.

@BertieBotts but that's water contamination risk you're referring to isn't it? I always boil the water but use it cooled. I've never heard of having to kill bacteria in the formula itself and the tins don't state to do this, in Oz at least.

Oh sorry just saw the link. That's very interesting, I've never read that before. I've always just followed the tin instructions.

A thousand times yes.

Good lord it's not bacteria in the water that's a concern it the damned formula that carries potentially dangerous bacteria.

The states is the absolute most ignorant for this. Their tap water is so bad that stores sell "nursery water" for mixing up infant feeds. People purchase this water and don't bother boiling it, making up their baby's food with cold water.

It's not rocket science.
If you use infant formula either mix it properly following the instructions on the container or buy ready made of you can't be bothered. Anything else is putting your lazy ass and preferences over your baby's health. Great parenting.

I have also checked the temperature of the hot shot and it's well over 70 degrees. I regularly clean it, change filter with genuine ones and take back off to check the pipes and it's squeaky clean

Highly recommend. It's a great piece of kit

Powder is impossible to sterilise and can pick up contaminants at the factory or from your own household/kitchen. It's rare it gets contaminated but it can be, that's all. The 2018 case in France they found one of the powder drying towers was absolutely coated with salmonella :( France is one of the countries people commonly make up formula with cold (often bottled) water.

surely there's still a risk of this with a bottle prepared with water at 70 degrees and then cooled under a tap?
Cooled under a tap means the outside of the bottle , it doesn’t mean adding tap water.
@TheCraicDealer

The hot shot is inadequate because
A) it's not in contact with the formula powder for long enough to fully dissolve it before the cold is added
B) although it is 70deg + in new machines, it doesn't maintain that temperature, degrees drop with use.

Formula should be made with the whole feed being mixed with 70 deg water then held under a cold running tap to rapidly cool to a safe drinking temperature.

Once the hot shot is added and the bottle shaken so powder is completely dissolved I have tested it to still be way over 70 degrees. That is before the cold water is then added.

It does only seem to be the Uk that says over 70 degrees.

Ie Hipp in germany says 40-50 degrees on all of their baby powder formulas, surely its the same product?

www.hipp.de/fileadmin/redakteure/produkt/artikel_pdf/2022-02.pdf

Absolute god send. They weren't around when my other two were babies but after we changed to combi feeding our DD3, it was an absolute game changer.

Heres the Aptimal milk instructions also on german site. Says to have water at 40 degrees also
www.aptaclub.de/en/products/milk-formula/aptamil-pronutra-advance-pre.html

Yep, different regulations.

We wouldnt be without our prep machine. Dont bother with the 'day and night' one just the cheapest is good and no different!

Our DD is 5.5 months and never had any tummy issues. It's been a lifesaver tbh, so easy to use.

This is a good illustration of how ridiculous some things about child-rearing are. Loads of people on this forum obsessing about 70 degree water and it turns out the recommendation a few hundred miles away in a highly-developed country is entirely different!!! I presume the German children are all doing fine.

There are some amusing books about this- comparing our Anglo-American 'rules' for parenting and how those compare with the diverse range of countries around the world.

God yes get one. We take ours on holiday!

Hell yes!
My husband was reluctant with our first but he admitted he was wrong after a couple of weeks and he NEVER admits he's wrong!

Oh god yes, get one. I loved mine so much that second time around I bought two, one for the kitchen and one for my bedroom. No more going downstairs in the middle of the night!

Also you don't need to faff around counting scoops in the wee hours. Buy some powder pots and make them up for the day. I used to do six every night before bed. TT sell them (as do other brands). Then you just tip the pot into the bottle. So much easier.

I’m really interested in the differing guidelines- do German babies, for example, suffer more food poisoning than British ones?

Guidelines for the manufacturers, rather than for parents.

I actually don't know whether German parents are advised to make up the formula with 40-50C water or hot water - we didn't manage to get a midwife as there was a shortage and I had read enough MN threads over the years to know how I was planning to do it.

I was thinking about this earlier when using my machine to make up a couple of bottles. Like so many things, I think it's about minimising risk. In the early days when you might be making 12 - 15 bottles a day and you're too exhausted to remember your own name, the chances are that you might well bugger up one of those bottles if you're making them as you go with a kettle etc. The perfect prep removes some of that risk as it's piss easy to use and just a matter of pressing a couple of buttons. For us, that seemed like a better and less risky option. There's never going to be a 100% perfect solution.

Yes absolutely, there's no such thing as perfection and it's about comparing risks.

Now I've seen the shaking step I think I would consider the PP machine. I thought it was just a passive thing.

Someone asked about infection rates in Germany vs the UK - I couldn't find this but there is good data about infant/child mortality broken down to include cause of death, and if you sort by diarrheal diseases (which is my best guess) the UK has a rate of 0.5 per 100,000 whereas Germany's figure is 0.51 per 100,000.

Which of course illustrates that the numbers are miniscule, and isn't likely to be the only factor anyway.

@SpaceDinosaur what are you so angry about? People are just having a discussion about different practices depending on where they live.