Newborn cries all evening - advice please!

[ZoJo1111]

Hello - I have just had my first baby - little girl who is now 2.5 weeks old. My heart is full of love for her ... but my god we are having some tough evenings! Mostly because every evening she cries pretty much solid for around 6 hours (8pm to 2am). Through the day she is a bit tricky to settle, but the evening is a whole different ballgame. And it’s so upsetting as I just want her to be content of course - but it’s a nightly battle that is so stressful and difficult.

Currently managing by Changing her nappy, breastfeed her, wind her, walk around with her, cuddles, skin to skin, top her up with bottle if she still seems hungry. Repeat cycle for 6 hours ... and she just cries and cries through it all, getting more agitated as the hours go on until finally she tires herself out and sleeps. (The silver lining is then she does tend to sleep for 4-5 hours which is good - but how can we get there without the terrible 6 hours first?!)

Last few nights we’ve added infocol drops for any possible colic, and added swaddling and a dummy and this has helped a bit (the dummy mostly I think as that soothes her, especially through things like nappy change) and this taken the kick offs down to the 4-5 hour mark. (We’re also waking her every 3 hours during the day to feed, so that’s she’s not slept all day or crazy hungry by the evening time).

Husband is going back to work Monday and I’m so scared how I’m going to manage these epic kick offs more solo as is current joint effort! Any advice at all on how I can shorten these crying sessions or reassurance that others have been through it, it’s normal and it gets better would be so so helpful. It seems to always be that late evening time of day, which I don’t know is of significance? (But she’s so young at 2 weeks old still). Thank you.

I think this is Normal in early weeks
We got through it with lots of breastfeeding
And using a sling - well
Baby Bjorn pouch
Keeps baby close and upright so helps with wind / colic
And you can still function as hands / arms free !!

Hi there, look up icon. This is perfectly normal behaviour at this age. Will start to grow out of it by week 12ish.
Do not stress, baby wearing helps if you are happy to do that. If not, don’t worry, it is part of development, does not mean anything more than that if your baby is not showing other symptoms.
Take it easy and remember that this will all settle and it is not your fault.xx

OP - have a read up on CMPA. With the 10 dirty nappies a day and the colic symptoms, it could be that. Maybe ask the GP?

I realise it’s just as likely cluster feeding etc but I tortured him/myself for 3 months before my DS was diagnosed.

DS2 was like this and it was silent reflux. Omeprazole worked wonders after infacol and gaviscon failed. It took a lot of persuading to get the GP to take it seriously at first.

Consider cows milk protein allergy CMPA especially with the ten dirty nappies. A lot of the symptoms your baby has are CMPA symptoms x

Congrats on your baby OP. My DS2 was like this, it’s really hard, we tried everything, including cranial osteopathy for colic, we just couldn’t seem to settle him, he did grow out of it eventually.

We had this with our daughter and it was silent reflux. Book an appointment with a private paediatrician if you can... it took us more than 4 months of unbearable night screaming and sleepless nights to get it diagnosed alongside a dairy intolerance, as the gp was useless. It was worth every penny! We had to change to neocate formula and get a prescription for omeprazole and ranitidine to get on top of it.

I’ve been worried I’m not giving her enough when she still cries at the end, but maybe she’s just not done
This sounds just like cluster feeding. So many mums havent been told about it and so assume they arent producing enough milk or their baby is particularly hungry :(

If everything's okay babies don't cry at the breast.

However they do feed for six solid hours in the evening when they're under two weeks old.

If he's crying at the breast look at your latch first.

If your latch is definitely fine (putting on plenty of weight, no excessive wind) look at reflux.

Giving formula top ups will prevent your supply catching up and it'll take a week or so to get it back if you've been giving top-ups.

What's the time frame for formula top ups and fussyness? Has it made it better or worse?

If the problems continue look at cow's protein allergy and lactose intolerance. Formula is cow's milk but obviously the secondary source is that you also consume cow's milk which your baby receives via breast milk so you'd have to cut out dairy.

The one thing that's for certain is that it's rare for a new mother to not to produce enough breast milk unless you're not feeding on demand or have had surgery to your breasts.

Thanks all for taking time to share experiences and give advice - gratefully received.
Last night was worst yet ... urgh. 8pm til 5am ... roughly was this pattern- 10 mins breastfeed, 10 mins sleep, 40 mins of crying with us trying everything to soothe her ... repeated for 9 hours. Am soooo tired. Kept offering breast During crying period but she would keep rejecting til ready again. Would be soothed a bit by being carried round in sling, but not for long. Gave up at 4.30am and gave a bottle of formula (90mls) which she chugged down and then finally fell asleep at 5am for 5 hours (sleeping on my husband though so he didn’t sleep at all, eek. Transferring to basket started her crying again and we just couldn’t have more of that! Had been trying the basket transfer since 2am).
So - a tough night. She is SO much calmer during the day now, sleeps and feeds much much more easily. But my god the nights are bad. I feel reassured reading your posts that it won’t last forever. Husband wants to try just bottles of formula tonight as thats what worked in the end last night - but I’m worried that will mess up my
Milk flow. But maybe as an experiment for one night we’ll have to try it (and I’ll express as much as poss) - to see if that helps the situation. Will let you know!

Oh my heart goes out to you! My lo is 7 weeks and it's so hard when they seem inconsolable. I've only skimmed the comments but I noticed someone mentioned the tiger in the tree hold (also called colic hold). I find this combined with patting/rubbing her back good. My lo hates being swaddled but when she's stressed I do that hold and bring her in close to me so I'm almost swaddling her with my body and then I shush quite loudly and continuously in her ear. Sometimes she's in such a state it takes her a few minutes to calm down, but I've found doing this - sometimes in a dark room - tends to calm her down and help her settle.

Good luck!

Just to add, I also accepted co-sleeping (not sure if you do this already). I really didn't want to co-sleep for a variety of reasons, but for a while it was the only way my lo would settle. Some lovely women here gave me great advice and I decided to accept co-sleeping. For a few nights my little one fell asleep on my chest and then I would move her beside me (everything in keeping with lullaby trust guidelines) and we finally got some sleep. It didn't stop her sleeping in her own cot, I actually think it helped her figure out her nights and days.

No specific advice, but just wanted to say this is normal and will pass. We had awful evenings for the first couple of months, it feels like it’s never going to end but it gradually does and you’ll find it hard to even remember what it was like.
I drove myself crazy trying to figure out why she was crying (colic, hungry, overtired, something else?) but ultimately you can’t ever really know for sure. Just keep trying different things and you’ll find a way to soothe her. I think the best advice someone gave me was to pick a soothing technique and stick with it for 20 mins at least before trying something else. And be calm yourself, she’ll pick up on it if you’re stressed and anxious

Hi OP. Not read the full thread.

Colic is 3 hours or more of unexplained crying, which is what your baby has but it is not a diagnosis. I remember going to the doctor and being fobbed off with ‘colic’. Infacol is pretty pointless when it gets that bad.

DD screamed horrendously. She was stiff as a board. It went on for months until I completely gave up eating dairy and soy. At 18 months we still haven’t been able to successful introduce it back in.

Also you don’t need to top up with formula. Cluster feeding is normal and your milk will be enough as long as she is having wet nappies. It’s a very common occurrence (I did the same!). To think you ‘don’t have enough milk’. As your baby want to feed all the time.

For me, it was because DD was in pain with her tummy and BF was her comfort.

I would recommend giving up dairy and stopping the formula top ups. But definitely ask your health visitor for advice as they can refer you.

I would recommend going to the doctor but they can be a bit useless and uneducated when it comes to babies. You may end up leaving with gaviscon for reflux or similar.

My now 5 month old was like this in early weeks/months. I tried to breastfeed as much as possible as seemed to calm him (wouldn't take a dummy). Also walking outside with him in a sling sometimes helped him to sleep a bit when he was screaming. It was such a difficult time and you have my sympathy but things do improve and although it felt like forever at the time, in hindsight it was a short time. Have a read about the period of purple crying as I found this reassuring and helped to explain what was going on.

Have you had her checked for tongue tie as well? Sorry I don't remember if you mentioned she is fussy at the breast. Please don't let your husband push bottles of formula. Mine did it to me and it was the end of breastfeeding for me and my son 😔.
If you have to give her a bottle please make it expressed milk.

@ZoJo1111 Best advice I got is babies can go a little milk crazy. I.e. They can smell their mums and you smell like milk. So even if they really don't want more sometimes they act like they do. Easiest way to solve it is to get your DH to do the bed time routine with you in a separate room. So my husband used to take my Dd upstairs, change nappy, put pjs on her and then have a cuddle. Usually she'd settle within half an hour. Obviously some nights that wouldn't work and I would need to feed her again but that was fine, I'd had half hour to have a bath or chill just me on my own.

Here in brighton they swear by cranio sacral treatment for babies - anyone local you could see? Helps realign baby after birth?

Hey ZoJo1111, I feel your sleepless pain at the back of my own eyeballs, you poor woman. It does sound like a feeding thing, so I'm going to throw a few comments which I wish I'd been told/listened to myself. Maybe one of them will help you feel a bit better:

1. It's ok to try a few/many things and find they don't work for your child and they still grow up fine. You are not mad and you're doing fine as a mum. No healthy baby ever got to speaking stage without any crying.

1. It's ok to breastfeed/mix feed/ formula feed, but basically feed in a way that makes you feel you're coping.

1. Your milk supply is at its lowest in the evening normally. Things that increase milk production are: lots of LIQUIDS (water, tea, soup, whatever) frequently + SLEEP, and solid FOOD (especially protein) - for YOU. Avoid things that create extra metabolic demands on your body e.g. house chores. There are also things like fenugreek, etc that can help.

1. If your baby is ok in the morning, try to express for 10-15 min after every feed, or every 2hours, in the morning /daytime (both breasts, Hospital grade pump is the most efficient way of doing this - you don't want to waste time here). This will help stimulate your supply in addition to /instead of the cluster feeding. Expressing can seem like a faff, but that way your DH can give that milk as a bottle top up in the evening while you can sleep and make some more milk. Part of the problem of lower supply in the evenings is that the baby has to work harder to get their desired amount of fuel, they tire quickly, become less efficient at feeding, fall asleep briefly d/t tiredness and then can't actually sleep b/c still hungry, so the cycle repeats. Latch can get sloppier and swallowing air more common => more colic as well. There is a cluster feeding pattern which you can cope with and another pattern with which you can't. Only YOU will know which one you've got. Nobody else can tell you that, as each mother-baby combo is unique.

I've had 2 hungry babies and inadequate supply for their evening needs. We survived with breastmilk top ups for DS1 in the evenings and formula top ups for DS2. A lot of people say low supply is rare - I guess that makes me a unicorn. Once I've read the (poor quality) research on breastfeeding, I stopped caring what anyone said.

I know what it's like to have a baby feed happily at the breast ....and then cry at the breast b/c there is literally nothing left. Again, lots of people will say that it is impossible to have empty breasts, but when there is no milk beading, let alone flowing, when you try to express, I am living proof that this can happen.

PM me if you'd like more advice re: making expressing simple(r) or if you'd like to clarify anything else.

OP I have been there. Absolutely know what you are going through. I think I even created my own post about it asking for help at 8 weeks and again at 12 weeks!

My only advice to you is to stay strong and try to give in to the cluster feeding if that is what the baby wants. For some reason I would try to fight it. I don't know why! It's common for the baby to fuss and pull off .. then go back to the breast .. then suck like theres no tomorrow... then fuss... It's tough on us mums!

It does get better, the evenings do become yours again (somewhat!). You're not alone. xx

@ZoJo1111
This might be helpful or not apply to you
I’ve also got 2 week old and just had her assessed for tongue tie, she had it snipped and is feeding much better.
I knew the signs as dd1 had it too.
Cluster feeding is normal but not until 4-5am- this is exactly what dd2 was doing until had tongue tie snip
I had to push for it, for me the key was that she was not coming off the breast satisfied, just exhausted. Also couldn’t hear swallowing.