Fathers bond?

[Poppet1710]

Sorry in advance for the long post-
My husband and I have a beautiful month old baby. When he was first born my husband was over the moon but recently I have found him to be distant from us both.
We’ve had difficulties from the start with weight loss, jaundice and an emergency admission to hospital when he was unwell. Breast feeding as also been a challenge from day one and despite breastfeeding groups, lactation consultant, tongue tie division his latch is still shallow and he cannot maintain a feed. It is painful for me and becoming very distressing. I was a mess. We introduced the bottle initially of expressed milk But now a combination of expressed and formula as I can’t pump quick enough to meet his demand. I’m devastated and full of self doubt about the formula. I’m crying lots and keep hoping that the fix is around the corner. I do keep offering the breast but he just can’t latch well. We’ve been referred to the tertiary tongue tie unit but the waiting list is a month. In the meantime by husband who was a lovely doting dad and so supportive of me has changed. He is doing all the practical things for us but he doesn’t want to hold our son, he is frustrated he won’t settle with him. Yesterday afternoon I got him to come for a walk with us- he didn’t push the pram (2 weeks ago he wouldn’t let anyone else push it he was so proud) and then when we got back he went straight to bed leaving me to feed and settle our little guy. I tried talking to him about his mood and he just shuts me down saying he just needs to get on with it. It seems he resents us. I know I haven’t best helped things being so distressed and tearful about the breast feeding and if I’m honest I’m still struggling myself. I need hugs and support to come to a decision about switching to formula but he just doesn’t want to talk. All my day consists of is change, feed, settle, express and if I’m lucky after that I get 30mins to sleep, eat etc. Yet I feel hugely guilty by the idea of stopping like I haven’t put my son first. Now with my husband the way he is I don’t know how to help him either. Is it normal for dads to distance themselves this way? Should I be worried about post natal depression in him? How can I help a man who doesn’t think there is a problem?

It does sound like he has PND which is apparently quite common in men. I don't know how to help him but could you speak to your MW (if you haven't been signed off yet) or HV (if you've been assigned one) and see how they can help?

The first couple of months are really difficult for everyone but it sounds like you've had it tough.

I hope things get better soon x

I would think he is just tired and feels left out , all perfectly normal . I don't think you need to jump to the worst case scenario. FWIW you aren't failing your baby giving him formula , I ff both mine and they are super healthy , if you do ff he can then be more involved and help you . I've watched too many friends struggle with bf when it obviously wasn't working . Don't be hard on yourself .. good luck .

I had the same latch issues as you and the more my baby grew the better his latch got and I am still feeding him now at 6 months. Looking back to when I was crying in pain while feeding him we have come a long way.

However, if this is affecting your mental health you need to make a change. A fed baby is best so don't you dare beat yourself up about swapping to formula if that's what you decide. Maybe your husband would like to do the feeds and would settle better for him? But obviously only you can make this decision.

I just know all too well how it feels when breastfeeding doesn't come easily. I felt like I couldn't do something I originally thought was natural and instinctive. None of my friends had issues. But let's face it breastfeeding is so hard. Have a think and decide what you want to do and don't let anyone else make you feel guilty.

Best wishes OP you are doing an amazing job!

All the pressure to breastfeed needs to stop. If you need to use formula then do it. I didn't breastfeed any of my children and I didn't feel any pressure to breastfeed off anyone. For the sake of your mental health and relationship I would switch fo formula.

Have you tried shields?

My DH was like this, I think they imagine a baby cooing and interacting a lot more and didn't expect the bad times so much. It gets better! I would encourage him to do as much as he can with baby, nappy changes etc. And that might take you having to let go a little too, letting him get on with it without correcting him or explaining how you do it

And fwiw the first 6 weeks are awful, once you've got through them the first 6 months are a bit awful but not as bad and then from 6 months onwards it all gets a lot better and things start to click back into place again

Absolutely recommend you try nipple shields. Had exactly the same with my son, and he needed them for about six months but then he was able to feed fine. Certainly worth a try. Good luck

You poor thing OP, breast feeding is really tough, I struggled with it too it was definitely a skill to be learnt rather than a natural easy thing for me.

I am assuming it’s your first baby, it’s a period of adjustment for you all. And all sounds very normal.

My DH wasn’t comfortable with holding our babies when they were really small, he was terrified he could hurt them etc. My two are 18 & 16 now, we are a very close family. My DH has been a fantastic dad to them.

It’s can sometimes take a bit of time for the bond to show but it’s there. When you are tired and in pain, your DH May feel helpless.

You are doing an amazing job by the sound of things OP, looking after baby and keeping communication up with your DH, even through it probably feels like a one way street.

We were very lucky to have a supportive MIL who would regularly babysit so we could go out and relax for an evening and talk, it really helped our marriage.

Wishing you all the very best OP.

Thank you everyone. DH will give a bottle but struggles with settling him after. It is tough as I know that I let the little one just suck at my boob he will drop off to sleep but it is so painful. We have tried nipple shields. They did work for a while but now he won’t latch on without them. For the feeding I decided yesterday to try to reset things. I’ve given him nothing but the bottle with expressed milk for the last 12 hours- was planning to do it for 24 hours. Then offer him the breast with the nipple shields again as last time he became bottle dependent it worked to get him back on the breast. If it doesn’t work then it will be bottle only. I’m hoping to express one to two feeds a day and the rest formula but I don’t know how to go about that without cutting my supply completely. I tried doing the usual advice of plenty skin to skin and taking him to bed- it isn’t that he doesn’t want to latch on, it is that he can’t.
With regards to DH it is helpful to know that they can feel lost at this time. I’m trying to encourage him to do things with our baby. He does them because I ask but I can see the resentment in his face. I have asked him if he wants to go to the gym this morning so he can have some space but he says no. We are going to see my sister for a Sunday roast today so I’m hoping the change of scenery and the fact there are about 8 other people who will want to cuddle/ look after this little one will give him a rest. I do think that he is putting a tone of pressure on himself and doesn’t quite know how feel when he gets no feedback from our son. Thanks for the advice and comments. I am trying to give myself a break about feeding- just can’t seem to connect the logical part which is fed is best with the emotional part.

Meant to say he won’t now latch on with the nipple shields not without.

I struggled to feed DD1 and, like you, really persevered at it with shields, pumping etc. But when I look back, I regret it - because it made those first few months so stressful and I wish I’d just accepted it wasn’t working as I’d hoped, switched to formula and got on with enjoying my baby. Yes, breast is best....but if that isn’t working, driving yourself mad and having an unhappy family dynamic isn’t necessarily second best.

Another way to look at it is that, in days gone by, where formula wasn’t available, our babies would probably have died - I think “failure to thrive” was the term they used. On that basis, formula milk is a bloody amazing thing!

All I can say is formula isn't evil
Both of mine were formula fed from birth and both had no more health issues that any other children and are now very successful women !

Logically I absolutely know this. Both my sister and I were formula fed. We both did well at school, have no long term illnesses and grew up happy and healthy. I guess I’m just struggling emotionally to stop something that I envisioned myself doing. I think both me and my husband are so unhappy that something has to give. I don’t think stopping the breast feeding will help with my husbands issues but it will mean I will get out more and hopefully make me happier. I just need to phase out the feeding- I’ve had mastitis three times and don’t want to get it again by suddenly stopping. Anyone have advice on how to stop?

@Poppet1710 - I stopped for my own mental health at 6 weeks. I had been combi feeding & expressing before that. I fully understand the guilt you are feeling, it nearly broke me. But I now look back with hindsight 2.5 years later & I’m unapologetic about it. It didn’t work out. Child is happy & healthy and gets a regular amount illness. No more than her breastfed pals.

I just stopped my daughter feeding & reduced pumping gradually over a week. I had a really poor supply so I think maybe I was lucky, my milk just tailed off. Had some leaks & pain on & off and would express a little if my boobs got too sore.

Re-your husband, I watched my cousins other half go through PND. He really struggled adjusting to having two children. It sounds an awful lot like your husband (but did him, adjusting to having a child as opposed to two). I think you really need to try & get him talk and explain how he’s feeling.. he may not need professional help but he might just need to get it all out & between you come up with a plan to go forwards. Has he gone back to work yet? I wonder if he’s feeling the pressure of suddenly balancing work life, baby exhaustion & also worrying about you. I hope you can work it out 🧡

Do switch to formula if it helps, but if breastfeeding is really important to you then do contact your local breastfeeding support groups as they can help get properly established

On the tongue tie issue you might want to try the Association of Tongue Tie Practitioners. They have a list of people who deal with tongue tie privately, we had someone out to us within 24 hours. Cost £150.

My DS2 was completely unable to latch at the breast and really struggled with a bottle as his TT was so severe. We also had jaundice, poor weight gain and readmission to hospital. It's really, really tough.

This is a massive adjustment for you both and at first it just feels relentlessly shit.but it does get easier, honest!

Thanks everyone. We have already had a previous tongue tie cut and it is not clear if it has regrown or not hence the referral to the tertiary centre. We’ve been to multiple support groups and seen lactation specialist both in hospital and at home. She is at a loss to why his latch is so variable but also why he cannot maintain his latch. Even though I think his tongue is free his tongue movements feel odd to me and it is the same when you watch him on the bottle. To be honest I am slowly coming round to the idea of full bottle. We have been with family all afternoon and it is the first time I have felt relaxed as he could just have a bottle without a distressing battle for the both of us. I know that over time breast feeding is meant to get easier but I’m not sure the affect on my mental health is worth it.
I also had a long chat with the husband. It hasn’t solved everything but is a step in the right direction.
Little one is 6 weeks on Thursday- I’m going to see what his latch is like tomorrow morning with and without shields. If things seem worse then we will go to the bottle. I will slowly step back on the expressing and when the milk goes it will be formula only. He would of got six weeks of my milk and as lots of you have pointed out- fed is best.

Just a little update- I tried my little one at the breast again. He slipped on and off feeding over over an hour intermittently getting frustrated even when I put shields on. Different positions made no difference either and even when he was on it was very shallow, milk everywhere as well. He just can’t maintain his latch. I’ve concluded for my sake and his that to continue that way isn’t right for us.
My DH has seemed a little better in mood as well. He took an interest in doing things for the LO this evening. Asking me if he could give his bottle and change him etc while I did dinner rather than the other way round. Also asked me to take some pics of him holding him. I know it is just one day but it is a step in the right direction.

NataliaOsipova Sun 24-Nov-19 08:07:10
I struggled to feed DD1 and, like you, really persevered at it with shields, pumping etc. But when I look back, I regret it - because it made those first few months so stressful and I wish I’d just accepted it wasn’t working as I’d hoped, switched to formula and got on with enjoying my baby. Yes, breast is best....but if that isn’t working, driving yourself mad and having an unhappy family dynamic isn’t necessarily second best.
.......
I feel exactly the same - oh hindsight is wonderful isn't it? I persevered for as long as I could. Nipple shields were so uncomfortable for me, they made me itch terribly so they didn't last long. I was forever pumping, it was almost as if I was surgically attached to the pump.

Husband, me and our baby were much more content when he went on a bottle. I'm glad he did have breast milk for a while but there was no way I could have kept it up indefinitely and he didn't gain much weight.

Spent years feeling a failure but, thankfully, I've got over that now.

Thanks. @NataliaOsipova @Bol87 @Bluerussian
You guys have really helped. This morning when I tried to get him to latch I could feel all my anxiety and stress coming back. I still feel guilty at times but need to remember that I have tried my hardest. Also while breast milk is ‘best’ it can’t be when it is ruining our bond. I’m sure I’m still going to have doubts and guilt at times about my decision but hearing from you guys about how you now feel looking back really helps. Also spoke to my mum this afternoon and she was relieved. She would support me no matter my decision but said she was really worried about my mental health before. Now she thinks my voice sounds lighter and happier where as the last few weeks I’ve sounded constantly on edge. That also gave me a wake up call. Now have a whole lot of questions re managing bottles etc when out and about but will get there. Thank you again.

Ah that's a great uodate .. I know milk seems such a big deal right now but it's really not in the grand scale of his life .. men are a little like children and get upset when they get moved from the centre of attention . It sounds like he is really trying and I'm sure the bottles will help him bond more as you move to a family from a couple ..

You've done your best, that's what counts. Babies get immunity from their mother's colostrum and milk in the first couple of weeks.

I remember being visited by a girl who was breastfeeding - successfully. I told her about the difficulties I'd had and she said.......
"Well, you have to persevere". I could have screamed! What did she think I'd been doing for weeks?

Some people are just so smug.

I was exclusively bottle fed, no choice because I was adopted. I grew up very healthy.

It sounds like he's lost confidence, is afraid, feels useless....i know, not what you need when you're trying to deal with so much yourself. I think let him do what he's comfortable with for now- ie cooking, cleaning, taking care of you... while you take care of baby. Once you start feeling better, gradually let him start taking on more of the 'baby' roles

About the breast feeding. Seriously don’t worry about it. I breast fed for a DAY and it wasn’t for me. No one judged me and even if they did I wouldn’t care. Both my boys were fed formula and they are fine happy and healthy. I think mums out too much pressure on themselves about breastfeeding.
On the other subject it’s actually common for men to have pnd. I know it’s obvious but talk to him about it if he doesn’t respond he will come round in time. Let him do what he has to do. Or even if he’s comfortable let him have some bonding time with the baby. Ur still at the start and have a wonderful journey ahead of you