What am I doing wrong?! Help / advice please

[90schic]

Hello everyone, I would really appreciate some advice. My son is 15 months old. He has NEVER slept through the night, not once, not even close. Best night was two wake ups and that happened ONCE! Once in fifteen months bloody months

He is breastfed and sleeps in bed with me as I was struggling to cope from the sleep deprivation... this set up meant we got the most sleep and I wasn’t full awoken by going in and out of his room again and again all night.

I am not a fan of CIO or CC, though I don’t judge anyone who has done it of course! I just can’t bare the screams, plus I live in a flat with elderly neighbours so it would be hard for me to do as I get anxious about the noise disturbing them. They are proper moaners / noise police.

Sorry this post is so long and waffley I just want to give all the details.... so Since the clocks changed he has been waking up at 4.30/5am. Previously he woke at 5.30/6am, combined with the several night wakings... I am on my arse. My partner doesn’t help with night feeds as he works away Monday - Saturday.

I have tried to push bedtime later (7.30pm) he STILL wakes up at 4.30am, I have tried to make bedtime earlier - strangely he wakes at 4.45/5am when bedtime is earlier????!!!

I think he might be ready to go to one nap a day...??? He is currently on two (1 hour) naps a day. Usually wake at 4.30/5 - nap at 9, nap at 2, bed at 7/7.30.... Goes down pretty easy for the naps... however Bed time usually is a struggle and takes 30mins to settle him every night.

Here lies my problem... he can only handle awake time’s of 5hours max. Any longer than this and he has a crap unsettled nap (from overtiredness) how the hell can I put him on one nap a day when he wakes at 4.30am also????? He seems to struggle to sleep more than 10 hours at night... why? All the other babies I know sleep 12 hours.... what gives? Is this normal????

I feel like a crap mum because all my other friends babies sleep through the night and I am stuck with the clingy bed sharer who wakes all night long. I’m starting to really resent him and feel constantly shattered. It’s making me be the kind of mum I don’t want to be (cross and short with him)

What am I doing wrong is there any option but CIO or CC? Will this even 100% work? Is there anything I can do that isn’t CIO? Does this sound like a nap drop to you? How can I drop a nap with these super early wakings? Will they end if I just go for it and have a grumpy screamer for a few days whilst he re-adjusts?

Anyone else in the same boat and want to bitch about their evil sleepless offspring to make me feel better?

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH I just feel so lost and I’m second guessing everything I do. He’s currently watching the wiggles as I just can’t mum right now

Can you try a sleeping bag?

You sound like a fantastic parent tbh, one who caters to her babies needs as a priority. I had two terrible sleepers so I feel your pain, but I think you are doing the right things.
There’s a reason they say it takes a village!

I wish I had advice but I can only offer encouragement! Nothing wrong with co sleeping and breastfeeding to sleep, so please don’t be embarrassed

@90schic I was the same as you, breastfed to every nap and for bed and then tried to sneak out of the room, sometimes successfully, sometimes not!

We didn't do anything different, but around 2years old DS stopped asking for milk in the night himself and then suddenly was sleeping through. It was magical lol.

He's now 2 1/2 and sleeps in his own cot until we go upto bed and I take him with us because he's all cuddly and lovely.

My son is 4 and still wakes - I don’t think he ever slept through more than a handful of times - and we co-slept until he was nearly three. He slept better with us than when he went to his own room, which he did the first night we tried and has never come back since not even for a cuddle!
I genuinely think some children just struggle with sleep. I daren’t even tell you what his average wake up time is!

No advice but my friend's baby is exactly the same and I still think she's a great mum. I'm sure you are too. I'm anti CC and CIO too and admire you for doing so well

At 15 mo my son was exactly the same . I did CC, actually that was worse because every time I went back he got freshly upset. I left him to CIO at bedtime and within I think 3-4 nights he slept through. I now put him to bed, say night night and leave him every night and he might grumble but he's almost always silent within 30 seconds of door being shut. I weaned him fully at 20 mo. He's not traumatised, he stills loves me and now at 2.5 sleeps perfectly every night unless he's unwell. #2 probably won't get on tap night booby til he is 15 mo tbh!

OP, I don’t have any magic solutions, but may I suggest two things to try? Both my DDs slept through the night from 8 weeks, and I did this with both of them.
First, stop bed sharing. Put baby’s cot jammed right up next to your side of the bed, so baby can see, hear and smell you for security.
That way, you’re not disturbing him with movement, risking waking him every time you turn over.
Secondly, invest in a night time dummy. Let him get used to sucking himself back to sleep if he wakes. He really shouldn’t need fed overnight at 15 months.
Once he’s sleeping better at night, you can consider dropping one of the day naps. At present he probably needs both as he’s so tired from all the night time disturbance.
I’d leave thoughts of his own bedroom until you’ve got this routine well established. Good luck. You will feel like a new woman once you are getting a proper night’s sleep yourself.

Not in the same boat and have a decent sleeper (17m) and didn't BF past the early months, so apologies if none of this is helpful! You're doing a great job btw tho, really! Personally I think a lot of sleep is luck but I know the 'i worked so hard for my DC to sleep well' brigade will be out in force soon to say otherwise...

I do credit some of my DD's good sleep to her dummy and my reluctance to give her milk in the night. So that might be something you want to try and weather for a bit but equally if they don't have one I understand why you might not want to introduce one at this age/go through the stress of that too.

We also put her to bed in sleeping bags so that might help if it is the cold.

You could try a gradual retreat type option for reducing night feeds and/or getting them to sleep in their own bed. We did this with DD to transition her from falling asleep in our arms to falling asleep alone in her cotbed. It worked, minimal tears, it did take like...3 or 4 months? Done v gradually. She was much younger tho like 9-12m.

Also find comforter type things can help so obviously our DD has dummies first and foremost but she has them on a Sleepytot dummy which also works as a comforter. She also has a clear bedtime routine and a thing on her cot that she can press to play lullabies on. We used to play it if she had night wakings and over time now if she wakes up in the night properly, which is rare, she will sit up and turn it on herself and I guess it helps comfort her back to sleep.

She still sleeps in our room, her cotbed is at the head of our bed so she can see us if she wakes in the night. Sometimes she sits up and looks at us and then goes back to sleep. We are probably going to try her in her own room soon though. She naps in her own room already in a travel cot.

No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley is the only sleep book we used a little btw. It's very gentle.

With the benefit of hindsight (two teenagers!), what helps in this situation is to work out what actually needs to change. From what you're describing I'm reminded strongly of the situation I got into with my eldest. She was 10 months, I was back at work, and she had to be fed to sleep - and it had me on my knees.

What was missing, was that she needed to learn how to self-settle. We all naturally rouse somewhat between sleep cycles, then go back to sleep. Some babies learn how to do this instinctively (my youngest did, thank goodness!), some don't - so continue to wake up multiple times at night, as once roused they don't know how to get back to sleep by themselves.

The things that worked for us have been mentioned by others above - a dummy at night, lullaby machine of some description, and putting them in their own cot, awake (as in, not fully asleep). I think I may have decided that I was going to soothe her without actually picking her up, once we'd started. So I'd reassure her, say it's bedtime, and stand there with a hand on her, then try to gently remove the hand. If she fussed again then reassure first, hand back second (you may of course need to be more active with an older toddler who might just stand up and shout at you!). Then a process of gradual retreat, a foot at a time (I've heard people describe this as a piece of elastic). Always returning a bit closer, reassuring verbally, putting the music back on, passing the dummy back, then retreating again. I was aiming to have the dummy and the music as firm sleep associations.

Amazingly when I did this it worked within a few nights. It may take longer with an older toddler but if you can commit yourself to making a change and sticking with it for a week I think you will find improvements. Once they can self-settle they are much more likely to sleep through the night - because they stir and go back to sleep again unless they actually need something. So also, decide whether and when you think they should need feeding in the night, and be prepared to settle them back to sleep without offering this.

My youngest was a dream by comparison, slept easily and soundly. But he was a lark and I had to work hard as he got older to get him to stay put until 5:30, and then 6 am (I think we got to 6 ish when he was in school). Guess why my mother had no sympathy for me on that problem?

Very best wishes, hope you can gain some improvements soon.

You really don't need a sleep consultant. You need to work out what you want and how to get there. My first was 16m when he slept through and he didn't just do it himself. I had been bedsharing until then, I put his cot up next to the bed. Fed him milk, cuddle, put in cot. Stayed with him- there was crying but I reassured him, held his hand and patted him. He got used to going to sleep in his cot in a couple of days. Then I moved back into my old bed with dh, then he started sleeping through.

Re waking times I really feel you- that's hellish. Weirdly lots of children need an earlier bedtime if they wake early, so you could try dropping one daytime nap and putting him to bed at 6.15ish. I remember having to have early dinner times so our lo could get to bed in time, if you miss the sleepy window it's a million times harder to get them down.

“
I keep imagining the type of person I’d have been if my babies had slept. ”

Oh love, I feel this deep into my soul.....

I have kind of given up hope on the sleeping through the night part tbh, My major concern at the moment is the waking at 4.30am, 6am would be glorious. My expectations are very low And back down to 3 wake ups a night (maybe 2) I could live with that. Until he learnt on his own. He won’t go in a cot, he doesn’t know what one is which sounds ridiculous but he has always slept with me, from 3.5 months so he doesn’t know any different. As I’m alone in the week as DP works away I don’t mind bed sharing tbh, we sleep on a matteress on the floor for safety.

I would love more of an evening to myself or a longer lie in in the mornings. He went to bed at 7.30/8pm last night and I literally read my book for an hour then went to bed, up four times then up at 4.30am

I’ e given him a mini nap this morning and he’s gone down for his long nap now as @princessbananahammock252 suggested. I’m going to try and keep at this for a little while.

Thank you everyone who replied. I’m going to leave CIO and CC methods for a little while as we move into a house in May. So if this is still going on then I might try it at a later stage but with my elderly neighbours I honestly can’t deal with the aggro they will give me. And I really want to try an let him learn it on his own for a little bit longer... I can’t bear hearing him crying it makes my guts turn over. I just don’t think I could go through with it. But if he’s still playing me like this in May I may be singing a different tune ... who knows

I've not read the entire thread so not sure if someone else has suggested it but there is a helpful FB group called the beyond sleep training project. It's anti cio and cc, it's full of people who will offer support and solidarity. It's really helped me feel better about my little ones sleep/lack of! Which in turn has helped me get him to sleep easier 🤷🏻‍♀️🙂

honestly this is my exact situation, even right down to an OH who is away a lot!!! i definitely was not pro-CC or CIO and did not exactly plan to do it..... it was pure desperation, but once i'd done it it was so painless and i got a huge chunk of my life/independence/sanity back that i didn't even fully appreciate being gone til it came back. and tbh i had to admit i wished i'd done it earlier!

Ok, if it is the early morning that's the biggest problem for you at the moment, let's think what could change that. Self-settling is one aspect. Otherwise - in the absence of a cot, do you currently have any safe place (play-pen or similar) where you can put your baby with a few toys and let him entertain himself for a bit? I can imagine a wakeful baby in bed with you leaves you few options but to follow their lead as to what is "daytime"; but if you start putting him somewhere else (possibly in your room possibly in hearing distance) at that point, you could just say, Mummy needs to sleep, and leave him for a while. Even if he stays awake he may be ready to have some quiet playtime on his own.

This is just a thought, don't know if it will work, maybe worth a try in some fashion.

@90schic I hope the catnap trick worked for you today. I can't really comment on the multiple wake ups in the night as I've not been in a similar situation to yours, however I do completely sympathise. We've had our fair share of them but for very different reasons, therefore handled differently. The early wake ups though, I totally get them. And it sounds like you'd be happy with even an extra hour at this point. To me it sounds like he could be stuck in a cycle of becoming overtired, which in turn does result in early wake ups.

Hopefully by capping an earlier nap, and then letting him properly catch up during his main nap, that'll help him. Ultimately it should also push bedtime (without him becoming overtired), his awake times between sleeps and most importantly his start of the day wake time. Good luck!!!