7 month old baby, working full time & exhaustion

[DragonOnFire]

Starting to feel like I'm not coping and I'm sure this must be talked to death on here, but please tell me how to deal with exhaustion caused by a young baby that doesn't sleep through whilst working F/T?

I work full time and have a fairly lengthy commute of at least 2 hours a day, up to 3 hours a day in bad weather (lengthy in my eyes). My DH also works full time and has a similar commute, we separate our commutes up so that we can split the drop off & pick ups for our 7 month old DS at nursery. DS goes to nursery around 8.30am (after he has a short nap, and when traffic calms down for our commute) until 5.45 (6pm deadline!). Our work is flexible and we can sometimes work at home if planned ahead for an emergency but this is our usual timetable.
I'm still breastfeeding at night, but have reduced daytime expression at work to once a day, sometimes nothing, which has saved me time at work. However, I find that my evenings are just non-existent. I get in around 6.30-7pm and usually find DH has got DS into a nap on his shoulder but can't put him down until I get home and feed him to sleep. This means DH can't do other chores like washing or checking DS' change bag from nursery. As soon as I'm back it's my turn to get baby to sleep, and DH sorts himself some dinner. My evenings are spent dragging myself up & down the stairs trying to settle DS, whilst trying to grab some dinner of some sort (usually reheated batch cooking from the weekend). I find I can't relax and if i do get to sit on the sofa, I get about 20 minutes of TV max.
DS still does not sleep through and will be unsettled around 10-11pm for a dream feed, then might usually wake at 2am and 4am before he gets up at 6am. I used to co-sleep but he's getting a bit big and we're ready to get him sleeping more frequently in his own cot in his own room. DH will take one of the nighttime wakings but I'll usually be disturbed at least 2x a night for dream feeds. Because of this I go to bed around 8.30pm to get enough sleep to function at work.
I struggle to even find time to shower & blow dry my hair to look presentable for work.
I've found my weekday diet can be really basic & repetitive and has to be planned & prepped ahead. My brain just can't handle processing any thoughts after 7pm when I get in.
In fact, my memory is just about clinging on, but some days I can barely hold onto a thought & get clumsy, I trip over my feet at work.

I knew this would be tough, but I just can't seem to get any respite. Every working week is like treading water, waiting for the one weekend day where we tag team a lie in.
My son is amazing and I love spending time with him, but I'm starting to feel overwhelmed by a lack of my own time. Weekends just seem to be catching up with life admin and household tasks.

We rely on both our wages and going part time isn't an option for either of us at the moment. We get groceries delivered but even the planning of what food we will eat feels like an enormously draining cognitive task.

OP sleep is just luck of the drawer, DS slept through (12 hours) from 4 months, but we didn't do anything in particular, just really lucky! DH definitely needs to help more, not changing his nappy or feeding is actually really cruel.

"how do women get their partners to listen to them?"
Um well it helps to choose one who isn't a selfish arse in the first place (sorry!)
I suggest you stop doing everything and instead of asking him permission you just tell him what's happening.
"I am exhausted and can't carry on like this so the new routine will be..."
"I am exhausted and can't carry on like this so I need you to..."
"I am exhausted and can't carry on like this so I suggest we do..."
"We need time to rest at the weekend so we are getting a cleaner, this is non negotiable"

Stop being so nice to him. Get angry if necessary. Some most men are so clueless they need it spelling out to them and they need to know how pissed off you are.

Also, some mumsnetters will tell you to book a spa day and leave him to it... this is somewhat of a cliche but it's one way to catch up on rest!

The fact is that your DH took parental leave so he knows what needs doing, he just leaves it all to you - and that's partly because you let him.

Hi op
My baby is 13 months now but I went back to work at around 5/6 months so it’s fresh in my mind
I have two other children age 4 and 6, I work 3 days my commute is c 2 hrs each way
I’m breastfeeding and only just now try to night wean and ee cosleep. I found the cot impossible because I can’t control her nap timings etc during the day and co sleeping is the only way to get through each day. It’s hard because like you one of us (well me) gets stuck with her from the moment we walk in the door at about 6.30 until she’s asleep I have the others to get to bed too which is a nightmare. Currently my downstairs is like a bomb site packed lunches not emptied, dirty clothes everywhere etc and I haven’t had dinner
So basically you are not alone but in my opinion returning to work with a young baby is harder work than most people know or remember ! I’ve had days I was basically in a trance or the room was spinning I was so tired which isn’t good
But just now I think things may be improving. I’m looking forward to fully night weaning then I think the cot might be next then I’m hoping to be downstairs in the evenings drinking wine!
For dinners if I’m on my own with them for bedtime I tend to have a sandwich on the way home. Tonight I got a pasta salad from m and s so no cooking
We have the freezer well stocked with cook meals so there is always something to eat. I also do batch cooking but not very often as I don’t have time only about once every three months
Basically the catering is dreadful but it’s not for ever best of luck be gentle on yourself
Oh and it’s all terrible for relationships don’t worry I’d suggest booking babysitter and going out sometimes as otherwise every interaction becomes about a list of chores

Thanks @AnotherEmma I think I need this straight talking advice, I've just avoided confronting him because he is overly sensitive to anything could be a criticism (he was raised as a golden child, genuinely my MIL talks like the sun shines from his arse and last time I saw her she was telling ME how my life needs to adapt to having a baby; e.g. Accepting having a dirty house). I feel like writing everything down in this thread had helped me chat the fog and see clearly that he needs to have this talk.

This is really helpful to thanks @lovemylot1
Just knowing that there are others going through the same situation gives my comfort.
I also have moments at work where I'm worried I'm going to faint from the exhaustion, and this afternoon I was struggling to read words on paper in front of me.
It's not ok but I'm glad I'm not the only one struggling. Hope you're getting through it and there is someone around to help with your chores, as that they actually do help!

Well something has got to give you can’t go on like this. All those jobs you did when you arrived home your DH should be doing. It’s simply not fair otherwise.
Tell him you are running on empty and if he’s not prepared to pull his weight you are going to end up being ill. Selfish sod.

Ah you poor thing.

With your husband - go with the consequences. He thinks his bedtime routine is better? He has to do all the wake ups.

I cut back breastfeeding at night once we were both back at work. We tried a lot of ways but ultimately found it was best for each of us having one night we were ‘on’ for all the wake ups, and the next night none. I found we both functioned much better on one decent night’s sleep out of every two, versus constantly broken and listening out for the baby anyway.

I still fed at morning and bedtime until they were 17 and 20 months.

The other advantage to bottles for night waking was that it’s easier to cut down volume and gradually get them out of the habit of waking up hungry and load up on milk at night, and instead shift eating patterns towards daytime.

My DH is pretty allergic to criticism too. I think the vast majority of men are (NAMALT yada yada). The male ego and all that.

I got to the point where I was absolutely bloody sick of tiptoeing around his ridiculous ego and I told him that overreacting to even the smallest criticism was simply a way of punishing me for pointing out the things that are bothering me, and telling him that in effect he is expecting me to put up and shut up like a good little woman, which I am absolutely not willing to do. I am willing to pick my battles and be reasonable but I AM going to criticise when he bloody well deserves it.

Not sure if you can tell so far but our relationship hit rocky waters after DS was born - but he has always done a LOT more than your DH. Couples counselling has helped but there's no way you'd have the time or energy for it atm. I would say hang on in there for now, but be assertive and don't be a martyr.

Thanks for this @AnotherEmma
It is a comfort to hear your all too familiar story.
I definitely have an overly sensitive ego in my DH too. He's never been able to deal with conflict properly and I've been piecing together a lot of where it has come from over the years.
We did try Relate last year before I got pregnant and we were paying £60 a session. It helped to some extent but I didn't even touch on a lot of issues. We can't afford to go back even though I would love to.
In the past he had told me that 'it's the way I phrase it'. I have yet to find any approach that he is open to listen to me without throwing an attack back at me.
He will also go days without speaking to me after an arguement and then eventually just want to pretend nothing happened. Conflict resolution with my DH is hard work, and again, not something I willingly jump into when I'm already exhausted. Hence I'm stuck on this merry-go-round.
I need to try & talk to DH this weekend and try & instill this bed time routine into the baby. So far he's been down in his cot & settled all evening, which has given me some precious respite.

Oh dear. Sounds VERY familiar!

We were lucky in that we could afford counselling. When we started I joked - but wasn't really joking - that it would be cheaper than divorce. We've spent a lot on it but it's got us through a very tough time and (I think/hope) saved our marriage.

In our case in-law problems were a factor. If that's the case for you too, I recommend the book "Toxic In-laws" by Susan Forward.

I hope you know that the silent treatment is a form of emotional abuse. "Abuse" is a strong word but i wanted to point that out to make it crystal clear that his behaviour is unacceptable.

(Sorry for turning this into a Relationships thread rather than Parenting!)

Babies and working is a very bad combo for relationships.

I do have the same issue that my dh isn’t great on the chores. I now write a list for him which in itself I resent because part of the battle is being the thinker. But he seems to respond better to the clarity of a list. I’ve no doubt that the difference is his upbringing. Very traditional, in terms of roles in household hence he doesn’t have the domestic skills and is used to things being done for him. But he has improved over the years.

Also we do get on lots better if we’ve had a nice meal together or a laugh. Although that’s obviously very difficult to achieve.

This sounds so tough I really feel for parents that have to work full time and the children suffer too, I work in a nursery and the toddlers are in their for 10 hours a day are constantly asking if it's home time yet and when's mummy/daddy coming? They turn up tired as they've probably been up since early hours to get in for 8 and by 3 they are rubbing their eyes and waiting for parents and by 6 when they are finally picked up they are more than ready for bed it's a long day for us let alone them.
I only work P/T now I have children because I've seen what it's really like for the children, a lot of it's social pressure to be juggling so much in life and be coping but really all kids want is their mum and that's the one thing they can't have.
They don't care what car you drive, how many holidays you have or what shop their clothes come from they just want you to be there for those first few years, could you not work p/t and cut back on other areas as long as you can afford the basics and mortgage/bills are paid then luxuries can come later.

There not their

How completely judgemental on people who have to put their child into childcare. For some, it's nothing to do with fancy cars - why should you have to give up a career you love? Lots of children thrive in a nursery setting. I wouldn't want you looking after my future child if you thought that way.

Thanks again for everyone's helpful advice and I really appreciate all thoughts and experiences in this.
I knew it would be tough but bloody hell, going to work sleep deprived is tough but it's the cumulative effects on the rest of your life that get you down and make it seem never ending.
I meant to clarify that finances are something we have looked into and at the moment we want to stay F\T to just get ourselves into a good situation with some savings. We bought a house, got married and immediate honeymoon then got pregnant with baby the month after, it meant we focused and succeeded in paying off all of that before baby arrived and were able to get everything we needed for him, but basically we are at 0 savings now.
I went to Uni for a long time and had a lot of debt for most of my 20's so I never want to go backwards, being able to avoid going back into debt is something I need for my mental health.
The other financial issue is that I work on fixed term contracts and right now I know my employment is safe until next Christmas. After that who knows. I am discussing with my LM to put in for me to work 4 days\week in the next grant, and at that point our finances would be able to let me take longer mat leave if we have a second baby but grant applications aren't a guarantee. So until next Christmas I'm planning to keep my job F\T and work on our savings.
In an ideal world I would be younger and have more time to save a bit before we tried for a baby, but I'm 35 and we didn't want to wait.
He is happy at nursery and he is too young to know he is being left, so it has been OK for now. I dread him being able to realise I am leaving him.
Interestingly, my DH was going to do 5 over 4 working pattern when I fell pregnant, and I haven't chased him up on that.
I think we have options to look at, in particular if my position gets renewed with a few years funding after next Christmas then I would look to move closer to work (DH works in same city as me).
So many factors at play and I am always surprised by how many mothers are able to take long mat leaves and survive on statutory pay but everyone's situation is so different.

thanks @3rdtimelucky2019! I appreciate @cornishcreation's point of view but my goodness I don't know how other people can afford to go p/t.

Honestly, Dh and I have decent salaries, our house is a pretty standard 3-bed for our area, we buy baby clothes from primark and save points like crazy at Boots baby club, we have average cars and one holiday booked next Sept - for Cornwall!

We are careful with our food shopping, don't eat out often, take packed lunches to work, and socialize cheaply often at friends houses.
I do not know how other people afford to go P/T???? Maybe my DH needs to go get a fancy job to support me better?!.
Do other women worry about their pension contributions?

I'm going back to work after 16 weeks because the drop in salary would be a choice in paying for the mortgage or not! Ignore people about nursery, nothing to do with anybody else and won't affect the child one dot.

I think there is a touch too much day time sleep for your DS there, especially the long afternoon nap. At that age my son was having about 2.5 hrs total between 7am-7pm. It sounds as though he is having about 3-3.5 hours at the moment which could absolutely cause night waking.

I would try and cut down the sleep a little bit, maybe ask them to cut back his afternoon nap a bit - when is he having this? Ideally he should be awake by 3pm. Then if he is very tired he could cat nap for 10-15 minutes just before 5pm or on the way back from nursery.

In terms of food, at this age I think it is really variable. We managed to cut out the dream feed at 6 months after DS started taking substantial amount of solids. However my own experience of nursery is that they really don't feed them much! Perhaps you could try a carby snack before bedtime?

We also sleep trained DS. I know you might not be up for it but it does work pretty well - just make sure you have the food/day time sleep sorted first.

We are also both full time and our DS is full time at nursery. Don't feel bad - it's a necessity for most families and it is bloody tough.

Good luck!

I’d probably agree about the daytime sleep. My lad is 7 months and he has about 2 hours a day. He cat naps so he has like 3 or 4 30- minute naps. He can’t stay awake any more than 2 hours still.
You’re right about an evening routine, this made all the difference for our lad and whether it’s me doing it or hubby doing it we do the same thing at the same time in the same order, baby goes down 6.30-6.30 (or 5.30am at the moment thanks to the clocks 😫) he’s bottle fed though and I’ve never done dream feeds. And generally follows the same routine in the day.
I can’t help re hubby, mine thankfully is on board and we tend to discuss changes before we do them.
I will say that all babies are different and honestly most babies still need overnight feeds at this age, you are doing an absolutely magnificent job and don’t forget that. It’s hard work and I’m still on maternity!! I have no idea how I’d manage all this back at work so you have all of my admiration.
I agree with pp about some straight talking with your husband, it makes all the difference to have a team mate.
And yes I worry massively about my pension!!

Thanks again for more thoughts and advice.
I was thinking that around 3 hours was OK for my LO at his age, I read the sleep nanny (with a pinch of salt) and was thinking it is good for him to naps over 30 minutes because it teaches them to re-settle after one round of sleep, plus they are not over-tired come the evening.
Saying that, he doesn't always get 3 hours and looking at his nursery notes, he has been having less.
When I picked him up on Tuesday this week, he was beside himself because he was so tired -crying with proper tears by the time I was getting him ready for bed. He does have a bit of a chesty cough this week so he is still a bit under the weather which is affecting his sleep. Will have to have a review of his nursery notebook and see if I can see any patterns between his daytime and nighttime sleeps.
He is reluctant with a bottle so I don't want to reduce his nightfeeds yet as these are his biggest time for milk intake, for which I believe he still needs around 20 Oz a day, and he only takes 4 Oz max at nursery.
Going to have to have words with the DH about night time routine and support, I think this would be a lot easier if we were both on the same page.
I do appreciate everyone taking the time to drop an opinion or advice, I wanted to get a good 360 review of what we are doing to make sure I'm not doing something horribly wrong.
Thanks for the solidarity from all mums, hope you get some much needed sleep and support.
I'm still suffering the brain fog today, yesterday I felt better (probably due to the improved Tuesday evening bedtime routine -last night was DH again and it was another evening of me settling DS).
I'm doing the evening pick up tonight and have a work at home day tomorrow, so should have some respite coming my way.

One of the reasons he isn't drinking much milk at nursery might be because he is having 20 oz milk at night..

Could you come to an arrangement where when husband does evening pick up he is then responsible for the baby for the rest of the evening? Maybe with one feed from you if you want to, but then any subsequent wakings he goes in to baby? Then it's up to him whether baby goes to sleep on him or whatever but he has to deal with the consequences rather than you? My husband isn't great at pulling his weight but he is better if left to himself rather than if I am around as well. So could you go out for a run/have a bath or similar on 'his' evenings so that you're not available and he has to sort out baby wakings. Hopefully he would then see the sense in your routine plan! Obviously it's rubbish that he isn't more willing to listen....

It really bloody hard. I went back full time when DS1 was 4 months and when DS2 was 5.5 months. I got a sleep consultant in and sleep trained. They both slept 12 hours a night from then on. Worth every penny.