newborn baby throws up his bottle feed - any tips?

[miniegg]

hello
i've been having problems breastfeeding and my three week old baby isn't putting on weight so i'm having to bottle feed. the problem is that he often seems to throw up almost the whole lot soon after the feed. Does anyone have any advice for how to stop it happening?
i already try to feed it slowly,winding him in between, but perhaps I need to do it even slower?
as the breastfeeding hasn't been working out, it may be that the bottle feed is about 10x the amount he's used to getting at once, and it's too much for him?
(i'm feeding the amount recommended on the tin and by the health visitor)
it's not just posseting, it's a proper projectile vomit, though it doesn't seem to upset him.
the other thing is after he's vomited, does that then mean he's likely to be hungry again very soon? it leaves me with not much idea how much he's actually had and when i should feed him again....
any tips/shared experiences would be appreciated. at the moment the health visitor thinks he seems generally healthy but he must put on weight..he was born 8lb 9.5oz, and is now 8lb and has stayed the same for ten days.
i just tried expressing milk for the first time and it took about 15 minutes just to cover the bottom of the container (ie about 15 mls!) which suggests the poor thing really hasn't been getting much from me at all...

Try a different brand.

do you want to continue breastfeeding? expressing isn't much of an indicator of what you are producing, it is v hard to squeeze it out compared to a baby sucking. if you do want to continue it is worth getting some proper support from a trained counsellor - your hv is unlikely to be expert enough if you are having problems.

Hi,

Congratulations on your baby. There are any number of reasons why babies don't gain weight or only gain slowly - sometimes it's just a feeding problem and sometimes there are other causes like reflux.
My son had this and threw up feeds from the start. I tried breastfeeding but really struggled to keep his weight on an even keel and like you I ended up bottlefeeding very quickly (within three weeks). In the end I saw my GP and DS went onto Gaviscon with the feeds which helped and he began to gain weight. I gather though that in the 4.5 years since DS was a baby that treatments for reflux have got even better and there are even specialised formulas for babies not being breastfed.

Don't feel guilty about how much you got from expressing - you'll never be able to express as much as your baby would have got from suckling and chances are he was getting more than you think. Did he throw up feeds when breastfeeding?

Other things to look at are the teat size - my DS could only ever cope with slow flow ones - even at 6 months.
There are many different formulas out there and some are better than others - it's a matter of trial and error. I fed DS on C+G but in fact he was much better when I switched him to Farleys.

Agree it woudl be worth you seeing if there is any expert help with bfing around for you, LA Leche etc if you would like to try to continue BF. Fishie is right, expressing is different to having a baby sucking away, plus it can take a while to get used to it.

If you do decide to stick with the bottles - are you using a newborn teat?
Also, as soupdragon ( or not) suggested, try a different formula.

Ds puked like this, none of your gentle down front of top for him, oooohnooo, projectile all the way!
It could be reflux, check out with HV/GP.

My ds2 used to throw what appeared to be all his feed back just after he'd fed. I made sure that I had a towel nearby to catch it/clean it. It settled down after a couple of weeks. He was breastfed.
Also, I always found it very difficult to express milk. Never really managed to express much. However, I did bf my babies successfully for months so I wouldn't go off how much you can express as a measure for how much your baby gets in a feed from you.
Have you tried bf-ing more often. Perhaps he only needs a little but often.

ds was sick with breastmilk from breast or bottle and with formula.

Don't know about formula, do know that if you want to continue breastfeeding, you need support both on here and in RL from a breastfeeding counsellor. The numbers for the organisations that can (and will, happily) give this to you are on my profile.

Don't fret about expressing. What you can get with a pump is no indication of how much you are producing.

When he's been weighed, has it been naked and on the same scales? What sort of scales are they weighing him on?

...and also want to echo what fishie said. My friend is a HV and her "training" on breastfeeding extended to two whole hours in university. Luckily she is a breastfeeding wiz having fed four of her own and is a trained breastfeeding counsellor to boot. However, most HVs don't have that experience or knowledge so if you really want to continue breastfeeding it would be worth trying to find a breastfeeding counsellor - try the NCT Breastfeeding help line. I don't know the number off the top of my head but there will be someone here who does.

hi
thanks for the suggestions. i really want to keep up the breast feeding, but he does seem so much happier after a bottle feed (he actually sleeps, which is something of a novelty!). What I hope to do is mixed feeding, ie some bottle and some breast, and try and keep my milk supply going as best I can.
he never pukes after a breast feed - suspect he doesn't get enough milk to throw up!
but its encouraging to hear he will have been getting more than i can express as I was beginning to think the poor thing must have been next to starvation for the last two weeks.
i will ask the gp about reflux. is there any particular way it's diagnosed, or is it just diagnosed on the basis of what the mother reports?

Miniegg, if you think you want to keep bfing, really, really ring a breastfeeding counsellor.

please do ring them, don't worry they are there for just this sort of thing. i was rather oddly shy when ringing myself, silly since of course who else rings helplines but new breastfeeders asking for help! maybe he isn't throwing up breastmilk because he finds it more digestible.

Plese, if you want to keep bf, get support, call a helpline...I am speaking as someone who did give up bf (ds losing weight, puking up what seemed like a full feed after I had endured agony of bf through minced nipples, MW just kept telling me the latch was ok and that I needed to eat...I know now the latch patently was not ok if had minced nipples!)but wishes she had been brave enough to call a help line ( or known about MN)

0845 120 2918 - La Leche

0870 444 8708 - NCT

miniegg, I struggled to express even though I b/fed ok, it took ages and there was hardly any - it doesn't mean he isn't getting enough when he's on the breast. Good luck, mix feeding works for a lot of people but make sure you keep offering a boob or you won't be able to keep your supply up... Good luck and give the helplines a ring, it will make you feel better just to talk to a rl person who understands

Miniegg - the more you bf the more you will supply so keep doing as often as poss. Giving formula is likely to stop your supply increasing as your boobs will not realise baby wants more. (May be a growth spurt so he wants more than usual anyway.) Lots of skin to skin contact and definately contact a bf counsellor for some more help if you feel you need it. Great to hear he does not throw up the breastmilk as this makes reflux less likely.
You are doing really well!

Hi,
Sorry to hear about your ds.

My 6 month old boy was diagnosed with reflux at 3 months. He has always vomited his milk - I ended up having to formula feed also due to not latching on and weight loss - however, after a while he started screaming when I tried to feed him and one day he took almost no milk. I was obviously beside myself!

He was also a really "mucousy" baby, alwawys sounding as though he had a cold. The hv told me he just had a cold (for 12 wks!) and that all babies posset. But after the screaming started I took him to GP who said this was reflux (and the screaming while feeding was oesophagitis, because his gullet was inflamed by continual vomiting - the poor soul, I felt guilty for not doing something sooner). He's now on gaviscon and ranitidine and is such a different baby now. Rarely vomits now and putting on a normal amount of weight and the "cold" symptoms vanished almost overnight.

Def see your GP for advice. Also, my GP told me that some baby boys are prone to pyloric stenosis which causes projectile vomiting - its to do with the stomach valve being a bit tight, i think, but is easily fixable.