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Parenting

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Original poster

4 year old and uncontrollable tantrums before lunchtime

25 replies

Singlemom82 · 03/10/2019 19:36

My four year old has just started school, he’s been at school 2 weeks and I’ve been pulled by his teachers three time because he has had these uncontrollable rages in class. Tonight I’ve been asked to speak to the health visitor as the teacher says she’s never seen anything like it.

The tantrums are nothing new although they seem to have ramped up since starting school. He used to have the occasionally at nursey and sometime with me at home.

I’ve witnessed them, they will literally come from no where, he will pick something from thin air to get upset about and then he will get increasingly irate till he’s screaming and shouting, once he’s like that you literally cant get through to him it’s like he can’t regulate himself. Today it got so bad that the headteacher had to be called as he was kicking other children and ripping work off the wall! When he’s in one of his moods he is so defiant he will go against everything you say, it’s strange because most of the time he’s compliant and wanting to please.

The teacher mentioned today that it was before lunch, and he had one of these meltdowns just before lunchtime at the weekend and I was amazed at how his mood improved after he ate. I’ve then spoken to his old nursey today and they also mentioned it being before lunch.

Has anyone experienced anything like this, I’m wondering if he could be really hangry, could blood sugar levels affect a child like this? He has no signs as far as I am aware of diabetes. He’s not eating as much mid morning at school as they are only having a piece of fruit at nursey they would eat a lot more mid morning so I’m wondering if this is why he’s gotten worse?

I’m just not sure what to do with him, we have implemented an reward chart and he’s really trying hard, one or the children

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Redken24 · 03/10/2019 19:37

What does he eat for breakfast? Does have a play piece?

Embracelife · 03/10/2019 19:39

Clearly looks like he needs a carb snack at break. Banana rather than orange.
Or some wholemeal bread or a wrap?
You ve identified a pattern so it may be beyond his control.... try something else first.

scrivette · 03/10/2019 19:41

My 4 year old can get really nasty if he is hungry. He is the sweetest little boy usually but if he is hungry his whole time of voice changes and he can be spiteful and try to hurt his little sister. It's quite unbelievable.

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4 year olds Behaviour & development Families General education

Embracelife · 03/10/2019 19:41

What does he eat for breakfast?
What fruit does he eat at break ?
What time is breakfast break and lunch ?

SleepWarrior · 03/10/2019 19:41

Maybe speak to your gp. In the meantime feed back to teacher about nursery confirming it's always before lunch and see if school would let him have a banana or something at 11am (probably away from other children). I'm sure they want to avoid work being ripped off the walls etc!

If it doesn't turn out to be anything medical then you could work to phase out after a few months tantrum free as you don't want to actually pander to tantrums.

Embracelife · 03/10/2019 19:42

Any other gastro symptoms? Any coeliac in the family?

Contraceptionismyfriend · 03/10/2019 19:46

Is he Hangry. My 3 year old gets furious if she gets to hungry. It's then a fight to get her to eat. But the minute she starts to eat she becomes fine.

Thebookswereherfriends · 03/10/2019 19:46

During reception year I had to send in a handful of dry shreddies or a quarter sandwich for my daughter to have with her fruit as she was getting quite upset due to hunger. She has always had a change in mood when hungry, as do I. Try sending in a little something extra with the fruit and see if it works.

Original poster

Singlemom82 · 03/10/2019 19:46

He goes to breakfast club so I don’t see what he eats but I know he loves his food so I know he will eat enough there.

He’s mentioned that he’s had toast and jam this week, he probably has a bowl of cereal before.

I was thinking of sending him in with a carb snack, something that’s slow release rather than packed with sugar.

I’m not sure what fruits on offer at breaktime, they had fruit at nursery for snack time but when I spoke to nursey today they said he ate loads and it could possibly be that they limit it at school

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delilahbucket · 03/10/2019 19:47

Sounds like hanger to me, and very hard to control for a child. Sounds like he needs a more substantial breakfast, make sure there's lots of protein and keep the sugar to a minimum so he doesn't spike and then drop. He also needs a more substantial snack. An apple is not going to cut it.

Earslaps · 03/10/2019 19:52

My younger DS suffers very badly with hanger! Sounds like your DS needs more protein and slow release carbs in the morning! Could you give him a boiled egg or something before breakfast club? Then something like malt loaf with plenty of butter at break time.

mrsplum2015 · 03/10/2019 19:58

Definitely agree with protein not carbs.

As a hanger sufferer myself I had a life changing realisation a few years ago that protein and vegetables is the answer. The problem with carbs is that they fill you up but you are more hungry after, same with fruit which contains a lot of sugar.

I barely eat any fruit now and limit my carbs, I find my hunger and anger a lot less of an issue!

Nuts are a good snack but sadly not for school. Egg and avocado fill me up for hours !

tigger001 · 03/10/2019 20:05

I think your first call would finding out what he actually eats. I don't think you can know how to help him if you don't know what is actually happening currently.

Ask the school what he is eating for breakfast, not offered or given, actually eating.

I do think it sounds like a hunger issue. Porridge is great for breakfast and banana at breaks I'll keep him fuller for longer,

Icecreamsoda99 · 03/10/2019 20:16

Sounds like he needs a more substantial breakfast, if the breakfast club is like ours there is a slice of toast and a bowl of cereal and the supervisors get worried about "over feeding", not a lot if he has a big appetite and burns a lot of calories. Sometimes the children get distracted by wanting to finish and go and play so probably aren't eating as much as they should.

ChildminderMum · 03/10/2019 20:19

If it's anything like our breakfast club they feed them rubbish for breakfast - coco pops or a slice of toast and jam, juice or hot chocolate to drink! Insubstantial and mostly sugar.

Lougle · 03/10/2019 20:22

DD3 used to get extremely hangry and couldn't control herself. She wouldn't eat or drink either when she was hangry. I spoke to her when she was calm and said that she had to eat or drink if I asked her to when she was hangry. Then I'd say "DD3, drink!" and "DD3, eat!" She would, because we'd talked about it.

Something like orange juice and a biscuit would get her back on an even keel.

Kanga83 · 03/10/2019 20:25

First thought is ketotic hypoglycaemia, or a version of it. The outbursts are a classic of a drop in glucose. My children have it. They have a mid morning carb snack like breadsticks and cheese now which I provide school with.

tempnamechange98765 · 03/10/2019 20:27

My DS also really suffers with hanger. He gets so whiny, spiteful, defiant. My DH also gets quite bad hanger considering he is a grown man!!!

I have noticed that the snacks they have at school aren't enough. My DS is at school nursery and it's just fruit, and I don't think it's all that much as he's told me before that he's asked for more but there was none left! Is there any way you can send a snack in for him to have?

Original poster

Singlemom82 · 03/10/2019 20:37

Thank you everyone, it’s only just occurred to me after coming away from school today what it may be. So I need to do a bit of investigating as to what he’s eating in the morning and lunchtime when the school and breakfast club are open.

I sound like a rubbish mum not knowing what he’s eating at breakfast club but I don’t have any contact with them as I am at work at 6am, hubby does the drop offs so I can pick him up from school.

I’ve just sent hubby out to get one of those protein slow realise bars to put in his book bag to have at break time and I’ll see how we go from there

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Muddlingalongalone · 03/10/2019 20:42

Dd2 has just started in reception too and had this in spades tonight when I got her from after-school club.
I think I'm going to have to give her a more substantial snack from now on. I was only 10-15 mins later than usual.

BrutusMcDogface · 03/10/2019 20:43

I’m so sorry I haven’t got time to read the whole thread but I wanted to pop in and say I agree, contact the doctor and look up ketotic hypoglycaemia.

Caspianberg · 04/10/2019 08:11

Cereal and toast with jam are a quick fix and will cause his sugar levels to dip by mid morning, especially if he is susceptible to needing to eat often.

I would try and get your dh to give him a small breakfast before breakfast club. He probably needs something higher in protein. Boiled egg with glass milk, peanut butter on toast, some greek yogurt, cheese.

Gertrudesgarden · 04/10/2019 08:16

Good wee protein snacks are babybel or individually portioned cheeses. I use them for myself, as I get hangry!! Your poor wee boy does sound like he's out of fuel when he loses it.

MerryDeath · 04/10/2019 08:21

i used to experience very severe blood sugar crashes and i could definitely get really angry. what helps me more than anything is having eggs for breakfast. anything else, cereals/porridge are terrible, toast alone not much better and i get starving hungry rapidly and uncontrollably. if i've had an egg or two on toast my hunger is so much more gradual and controlled.

Kanga83 · 04/10/2019 11:33

The rule our Metabolic Specialists give us for meals is 'choose your carb and pair your protein'. So porridge is given with seeds, toast with nut butter, banana boats with nut butter, hummous and avocado/breadsticks, eggs with soldiers, fish with potato. It helps the body regulate sugar fat better than just carbs which can spike then dip.

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