Bedtime is just out of control and I need help

[FiremanSamIsInYourEar]

Exactly what the title says pretty much! DH and I have got ourselves into this situation and can't get out.
We have 2 children. DD4 has just started school and DS3 (just turned).

Bedtime is a fucking shit show. The children's rooms are next to each other and we lay on the landing reading story's or singing for around an hour, but can be much more until they are asleep. They shout and scream and argue with us. Talk over the story or song and just don't comply in general.

We (DH) got into this habit pretty much from the start as I would work.late nights and he wanted an easy life so would stay upstairs with them so they would stay in bed.

In normal day to day life we have lovley, kind, helpful children, but once bedtime hits the night mare begins.

Bedtime usually goes like this....

Bath time and back down for PJ's on and some milk. Both up to bed teeth done, toilet, kisses etc etc. They both then get into bed and either DH or I (whoever is doing bedtime) begins to read. We then get inundated with questions or crying or reasons to get out of bed. Shouting and screaming.

We have tried doing a warning of anymore noise we go down and we follow through but then they both get out of bed and either shout or DD opens the baby gate and they come down or they start to get toys out.

We stay calm use nice voices, try to explain now is bedtime listen to story etc .

I cannot do this anymore it is really affecting me and my marriage. We go up at 7pm every night religiously but can be up there till 9pm, and as we both work early or finish late it is so draining.

I feel lost. I don't have a great relationship with my mother (narsasistic mother) so I don't have a mother figure to help me and I just do not know what to do. This cannot go on.

Someone please help me. I want to be able to do bath and story etc then come down and leave them to fall asleep.

If you have got this far thankyou for reading. Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated.

why are you lying on the landing reading and singing? wouldn't it be better to take a child each and do that in their bed? story, song, goodnight - then do the super nanny approach, first time out of bed, return to bed with a 'goodnight darling', second time return to bed with a 'goodnight', everytime after that just silently return them to bed. Might be a shit show the first couple of nights

Maybe don’t bring them down for pjs and milk, it could be waking them back up and making them hyper. Going from hot to cold body temperature (so as hot as is safe for them bath, then out before water cools down) releases melatonin in the body so makes them sleepy. Maybe put them straight from bath into bed.

It is very rare that we are both here for bedtime so we lay on the landing as the bedrooms are so close together and it stops them getting out to each other. We have tried seperate bedtimes, but as it's usually just one of us home it doesn't work . Ds can take 90 mins to settle which means DD doesn't get to bed until nearly 9 and then is tired and ratty for school.

Ok. I think you need to double team this, stand firm, and power through.

1. Do supper/milk before bath
2. Upstairs for baths - one in the bath with one of you, the other gets a story in their room or a little quiet playtime with the other grown up.
3. Swap.
4. Child into each room, quiet story each, night light on and any comforters they use.
5. You and dh leave and close the doors.
6. Sit on the landing and pick a kid each. The first time that child comes out "bedtime now" and return them to bed and shut the door.
7. Any subsequent times, silently return them to bed. No eye contact no talking.
8. Repeat ad nauseum until you feel like it's never going to end
9. It will end at some point.

10. Repeat every single night. Seriously, cancel anything in the diary. 11. It will end. And almost certainly within one week.

Ok, if only one on shift, simply silent return and close the door every single time

Thankyou so much Bernadette. They usually loose their minds when we close the door, but this really cannot continue.

I will try exactly as you have said tomorrow eve as we are both here and hopefully within a few weeks we will get somewhere!

No idea if this will help, but the best system for us was i did stories in my big bed together, then took the youngest to their room (leaving the oldest to look at a book) tucked them in and sat with them for 5 minutes, then took the eldest and tucked them in.
After that its supernanny tactics.

Can you bring the bedtime earlier? It sounds like maybe they're getting overtired and then can't wind down. Could it be moved earlier by an hour?

I also wouldn't take them back downstairs. Can you try doing bedtime in one room (either one of theirs or yours) and then transfer once asleep?

Our routine isn't perfect as I can't get the little one to fall asleep without me, and then the big one wants dh to stay with her (although I can leave her).

This used to be our routine if we were doing bed in our own :
Upstairs at 5.30 for bath
Pj's, teeth, etc.
Sit on my bed and watch cbeebies (I know this wakes some kids up though)
Bedtime book at about 6.15 then lights out

If they talk we'd say quiet a few times and then we'd just pretend to be asleep. When they weren't getting the reaction they got bored and fell asleep too.

fireman honestly it will work but it will take time and if y9u decide to go for it, you and dh both have to commit to seeing it through to completion.

Agree with all above advice. It's WAY too late for going up at 7. They're worn out and almost certainly overtired. We have older kids and I still take everyone up at 6pm lights out by 7 no matter what. For you I would say start routine at 5.30pm after they've finished dinner. No tv after dinner. Ever! Once you go up no coming back down. Bath to bed and no messing. Be very clear. Put a star chart above their bed. Discuss a weekly reward and break down the steps to bed and they get a star for each of them, put a picture of the reward above bed. Spend ten minutes going through all the things they did really well today. Praise praise praise. Ignore every single bit of bad behaviour. Keep calm and carry on. You'll get there you just need a few weeks of establishing routine. Personally I wouldn't be shutting them in the room - do this with ventless but firmness and you'll soon have them asleep by 7

Yip upstairs at 6pm and don’t bring them downstairs again. If children are “starving” or dying of thirst I bring them boring snack (think oat biscuit) and water and brush teeth again. Low lights. Quiet voices and no nonsense approach as outlined above. You prob don’t need two of you. Take turns. I’ve been doing it by myself for 10 years now on week nights - DH does weekends when he’s home.

I was a single parent to 4 children I did bedtime on my own every night. Stories and songs were together in my bed then into each of their own beds and returned to bed as above. It really is possible to put 2 children to bed by yourself.

Just a thought that OP might not even be home to get them in bed by 6:30 as suggested. For your average 5pm finisher, it's an impossibly slim window, particularly if you want to spend any time with the children. Nothing to offer, OP, other than sympathy and good luck

Yes earlier. Would it be bonkers to have them in the same room? Would they be comforted by that or make them go crazy?

Mine were threatened with ‘stories’ from the slow cookery cook book instead of a normal book if they messed around!!

After you say goodnight you return them to bed on silence - every time

The sitting in the landing thing is madness.
I do sympathise because two of my three are and one still is shocking to get to sleep. Until recently at 22 months he was still rampaging at 10pm while dinner fossilised and I feared for my sanity

I’ve come to the concision that similarly to dogs, young children sense fear.

I would aim to have them bathed and in be no going downstairs again for 7pm
One story each
Nightlight on if necessary
Then you’re off.

If they kick off just go in an put them back in bed then off again
And repeat

The less you react the more boring and less fun it is.

I agree with the PP that they're going up too late.

Supper/tea at 5.30
Upstairs at 6. Low lights.
Bath.
Pjs and milk with stories together in your bed
Teeth
All lights off
Children in bed 3yr old first. Cuddle, kiss love you.
Then older child.
Love you

We leave the door ajar until asleep.

Practice rapid return. "I love you, it's night time, back to bed please"
Then simply take to bed.

We have an Alexa in the bedroom which plays CBeebies radio as DD is going to sleep. Before that we used white noise.

Mine are a bit younger at DS4 and DD2, but I do bedtime by myself most nights.

usually dinner around 5.30. If it’s a bath day then bath 6ish. Pjs on and the little one gets a cup of milk about 6.30 and big one a milk and small snack (they are skinny bottomless pits).

Then around 6.45 I leave DS to watch an episode of octonaughts or similar, which is about 10 min, and DD gets teeth done and 2 books read and into her cot and I just tuck her in and walk out and she self settles. Then I do DS. Same routine with teeth and 2 books, kiss goodnight and that’s it. He’s usually asleep in minutes and I’m done with bedtime by 7.10. If DH is here then we take a child each and its even faster.

Obviously we do tv, which doesn’t work for everyone as we prefer the separate stories given their ages and it was the only thing that kept DS out of my hair while I was dealing with DD and now it’s become our routine. I’m sure our routine will evolve with time, but the main thing is that once we say goodnight it’s kiss and switch off the light and they go to sleep by themselves.

Sorry I agree that bedtime needs to be earlier if you possibly can, bath at 6/6.15 then PJs and stories, lights off by 7 or 7.30 for oldest.

Also agree with not going downstairs again for PJs and milk, once you’re up it’s best to stay up, do milk before bath or not at all (will also help reduce chance of bed wetting)

Mine have joint stories but the rest is separate, older one goes off to her own room to look at books (when she was smaller it was something on tablet/headphones) while I cuddle the little one and say night night, then it’s her turn.

Some children do want their parent there while they fall asleep, my eldest does and mostly I do stay, but the deal is she has to settle and go to sleep very quickly or I will leave!

I sympathise too......

For those advising tucking in and leaving, where do you go to wait for the inevitable leaving their rooms? Landing or downstairs?

7pm is too late for starters. You should go up at 6.30, in bed for 7 on the dot if not 5 minutes before.

Oops sorry see that everyone else has already told you that!

I agree with all the previous advice. I'm not sure what time you're home from work but if its possible I like to do a quick visit to the park after tea then straight in the bath when home. I find the combination of fresh air and warm bath makes my son really sleepy. Otherwise he is out of his bed 100 times. Good luck. Hopefully the advice you have been given helps you! I went through a stage of 3 hours at bedtime and nearly lost my sanity.

Our dd4 was being truly wild at bedtime,, it would take forever and everyone was miserable.

We are now very, very firm about maintaining a strict routine. The boundaries are clear and we always follow through consequences. Things have improved massively.

She gets 2 books in her armchair on our laps, then cuddles and kisses and a back rub in bed.

If she is running about (gets hyper when getting ready for bed) and not calming down, she gets a warning that she will lose a book. Then she loses it if she continues. Sometimes she loses both and gets cross but is reminded to be calmer tomorrow to ensure she has her books then instead.

She has a stair gate on her room so she can’t come downstairs. We tuck her in and she’s allowed to either look at a book or play with her teddies in bed until she’s ready to sleep.... takes her about 30 minutes usually.

How was this evening how was this evening @FiremanSamIsInYourEar ?