Should I rehome our dog?

[PositiveVibes12]

We have a 4 year old male shih tzu who we have had since he was a puppy.
He can be great company and a lovely affectionate dog. But he has a very temperamental, snappy nature, he is easily irritated and then bares his teeth and has drawn blood from both of us. He has also attacked my mums elderly spaniel before.
We have asked the vet who suggested a plug in but it’s made no difference.
If it was just me and DP I could cope but we have a 2 year old DS now. He was cuddled into my on the sofa with the shih tzu at our feet the other night and DS shuffled his feet near him and the dog went into a rage snapping at my son and making him cry.
I really don’t want to be one of those owners who gives up but I would never forgive myself if he hurt my son.
Any advice?

It makes me so angry when people give up on dogs just because kids come along. Especially if you’ve had him since he was a puppy. Hire a doggy behaviourist and keep your child away from him.

I would get rid of the dog. He's snapping today, tomorrow he may be biting. Your son is 2, a dog attack from even a small dog could be fatal.

I really don’t want to let him go as he is part of the family and we love him. But as Brexit says, he’s bitten and drawn blood from both me and my partner before, and he bit my mums dogs face the other day and DH said what if that is DS’s face next time.
He has such an affectionate side then without hardly any reason he turns into a nasty and vicious thing. I think even with behavioural training part of me will always wonder if there’s the element still in him.
We’ve given him so many chances and it’s ok saying keep my son away but all it takes is a moment when my back is turned (which I can try to avoid but I’m only human) which is what I’m worrying about.

I imagine that you have let him get away with "snappy" behaviour from a puppy. Unless they are shown differently, dogs can behave in a temperamental way. If he is now 4 I doubt that you will change him. I wish people would understand that you have to teach a puppy good manners from the beginning.

If a teenager hadn't been taught to behave when a child it is silly to expect them to start behaving when older., Same difference.

I would say to rehome him too.

It makes me so angry when people give up on dogs just because kids come along.

Normally I'd agree but in this case the dog seems to present a very real high bite risk to a child.

Get a second opinion from a vet maybe? But he's proven to be a bite risk, I think either he goes to a relative who has adults only and can cope or you consider putting him to sleep. I'm not one to say that very readily at all unlike half of mumsnet but the risk seems very high here. For whatever reason he's a short fused bitey dog. I wouldn't have that and a child living together and I wouldn't expect to rehome to somebody I didn't already know very well. If nobody suitable exists, it may be kindest and most ethical to pts.

@percheron67 when he has snapped (it started to just be when we wanted him to go into the kitchen etc if we were leaving the house) we would firmly say no, or would crate him but it’s not made any difference. He now nips if people leave the house, go upstairs, even when my partner walks out of the bedroom in a morning.

How can you keep the child away from the
dog when they live in the same house ffs.
Who are you locking in the kitchen all day Sherb the dog or the child

I pet kept away from family life and secluded is an unhappy pet. Its cruel.
Better to rehome somewhere they will not need to compete for attention.

Pets do not come before children and those that think they do are idiots.

I would rehome as I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if anything happened. But I'm not a dog person so probably not the right person to ask.

I imagine that you have let him get away with "snappy" behaviour from a puppy. Unless they are shown differently, dogs can behave in a temperamental way. If he is now 4 I doubt that you will change him. I wish people would understand that you have to teach a puppy good manners from the beginning.

I agree with this. He's a spoilt dog who has become used to acting in control because you have let him. And let him repeatedly. Every dog has the capacity to use their teeth, just as every human has the capacity to use their hands. Teaching them what is acceptable behaviour starts when they are pups, and unacceptable behaviour, even by accident, must be addressed. Four years is not too old to change things and for your dog to learn better behaviour. The question is, are you prepared to put in the work required to address it?

This is it - I love our dog, but I love my son more. His safety is obviously my main priority. If we didn’t have him we would keep him as we’re adults and he only draws blood from our hands as a nip but to my 2 years old delicate skin what would it be like?
He might not even hurt him if we keep him, but he’s gave us warning signs that he could do AND if he didn’t and I’ve knowingly kept him, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself.
A lady I work with who only has adult children and has dogs has offered to take him in, so I’m considering her offer.
It’s with such a heavy heart it really really is, I just wish he didn’t have this nasty element that is making me prey it’s not my son that gets the brunt of it.

Positive. I understand that it is difficult but these "little nips" ought not to be allowed. He is controlling the situation by putting humans in their place. \The trouble really starts when little nips - which should be scolded (voice only) sharply and stopped - become actual bites because the dog doesn't see the difference If I lived near to you I would try to help out.

A visit to the vet first might be helpful. What if something is wrong? Like he is in pain? Vet might also might know someone interested in that breed of dog.

OP if you have the chance to rehome him somewhere you feel sure he will be loved and cared for then do it.
You will never trust your dog and you will grow to resent him because of the changes and restrictions his behaviour has caused you to make.
Better he lives somewhere he and his owners can be relaxed.

Perch - thank you I appreciate that. We do and always have told him off when he’s done it and then when we can finally get hold of him without being nipped (DH usually has to wrap a blanket around him to pick him up to save his hands and arms!) we then crate him. I’m sure there was a better way but that was the best thing we thought.
I do wonder if it’s maybe inherited as the lady we bought him from told us this perfectly believable story how he was from a litter that belonged to her elderly friend but he passed away etc - which is why we couldn’t see the mother and he has no siblings with him. We should have walked away but I fell in love. Part of me now wonders if she was lying and he was a puppy farm dog but it’s something I’ll never know.

We asked the vet who said he’s in perfect shape and health. He’s been like this from probably about 6 months to a year old I would say but has got worse.
He suggested this plug in for anxiety but it hasn’t helped.
I think it’s a dominance thing. When we have guests he humps them constantly and I don’t mean just for 5 mins it’s the whole time we have guests until we put him in another room!

In your situation I would consider rehoming. My rescue Lhasa can get a bit dominant with the family but not me as I don’t tolerate it. But my dcs are almost adults so a bit different. I wouldn’t take a risk with a 2 year old.

Has he been neutered op? That might help the humping and dominance issue?

I guess you could try lots of strategies like turning your back on him, removing him to another room etc etc but if you won't ever fully trust him with your son then it's a shame to always have to keep them apart.

Can you ask a charity to help you rehome him and keep him at home until that happens? A kennel environment won't help his temperament I wouldn't think

Without wanting to get into a debate, it is INCREDIBLY unlikely to be "dominance" or simply "naughty" behaviour. Dogs snap or make contact generally through fear or anxiety/stress. The behaviour with the visitors indicates stress to me. Not dominance. Dominance is a very old and outdated theory which has been proven false in domestic dogs. There is something much more complicated going on here which I couldn't possibly help with just through this snapshot. But I know that isn't what you were asking for.

My answer to your question would be - a LOT of work from a reputable, positive training based behaviourist is needed to help this dog. I would suggest in this situation it is not safe for him to remain in the family home. Not only is it putting him in a stressful situation where he may unfortunately one day go too far, god forbid possibly with your son, but it is too much for you to manage keeping them apart (I would imagine). I do think he needs to move out even if it is temporary while you find him the help he needs to potentially tackle his anxieties.

Dogs 'trained' by being told off or scolded are MORE likely to display aggressive behaviour as numerous studies have shown.

Dominance theory as it's understood by most people is no longer supported by anyone qualified in canine science.

Do not follow the advice of anyone talking about either of those things. They almost certainly do not understand the risks associated with 'training' a dog that way.

OP. You have a few factors here:

• this is a young dog and a popular breed. If rehomed responsibility via a charity then it has a high chance of finding a good home.
• the dog is not happy right now and so might (if it had the choice) prefer a home that suited it better
• manual prevention will fail one day. It's just human nature
• many dogs displaying similar behaviour can be successfully rehabilitated with the input of a proper, qualified behaviourist
• that will take time and money. Expect it to take a bit of time every day for several weeks or months and to pay a behaviourist £200-300.
• good insurance policies pay towards behaviourists so there could be some £ help
• if the dog had wanted to hurt your child when it snapped it would have. So far what you have is a dog that is trying NOT to hurt anyone but using inappropriate behaviour to communicate his discomfort with a situation. Scold him for it and one day he won't bother giving a warning.

Only you know if you have the time or energy to put into helping this dog. If not then rehoming is a better option. Whichever you decide, it's better to decide quickly so the dog has the very best chance. Delaying too much risks the behaviour becoming even more ingrained or escalating.

@missbattenburg you put this a lot better than I did! Wholeheartedly agree.

OP these things get worse for a variety of reasons. Telling a dog off for them is one of them.

When a dog growls or snaps he is communicating that he is anxious. If you then shout at him for it then you increase the anxiety and risk him never growling again and instead using a more extreme behaviour, such as biting.

You also risk him linking the scolding with your presence or the presence of your child rather than his own behaviour. E.g. whenever I am sat near my human and that small child is near I get told off so I'd better make sure that child doesn't come near us.

This is just a few reasons that scolding a dog as a training technique can backfire. There are other, less risky behaviour management tools such as counter conditioning and desensitisation. These are more appropriate when the issue is rooted in an emotional response.

A good behaviourist will explain these and help you implement them.

Listen to battenburg.
This isn’t dominance. You won’t solve it by punishing the dog.

I work in a veterinary surgery OP, we would advice a behaviourist to try and retrain him, or a medication called Vetpro Stress and Anxiety. The tablets have helped a few dogs that I know have tried them. It's a lot of change for your dog, having a new child in the house