Majorly fucked up, help me

[seeyounexttime]

5 year old DD still relies on being cuddled to sleep. Lots of reasons for this but it's gone on too long. No other issues with her. The whole routine can take up to an hour. We have a 8 week old DD too, so you can see where this is going. I often have both alone at bedtime as DH doesn't get back from work til 9 depending which office he's in. Last night DD1 stayed awake listening to stories while I put DD2 to sleep, fine. I then spent an hour in DD1's room and any time I moved to leave she stopped me. I told her I had to go to the bathroom and a minute later she was wailing so loudly she woke the baby. I settled the baby and went back to DD1 and the cycle continued. She did this twice more. I ended up telling her I'd had enough, I was cross because she'd woken the baby and she had to go to sleep. As a result she was in a foul mood today and very badly behaved at her cousin's party. And I am exhausted. I am ashamed of myself and I've let her down for letting this go on so long, how the hell do I sort this out? Any self soothing/bedtime advice is aimed at sensible people who do this when their DC are babies (as I will with DD2!). Please please help me.

I just want to say that you haven’t failed your daughter by cuddling her to sleep. You’ve met her needs and been there for her when she needs you that is no shame in that. Sounds like everyone above has some good suggestions for drawing it to an end. I had a similar situation with mine but my oldest was younger. I managed to get to the stage when I could just sit in the room and he’d fall asleep. So I would sit in a chair and feed the baby to sleep and then sneak out when oldest was asleep.

She's 5 so old enough to understand. If involve her in the solution. There are some great ideas in this thread but I'd ask her which one she wants to try.

Ask her if she'd like to sleep in one of your tops, or would she like to choose a special new teddy to sleep with her, or if she'd like a sticker chart and a treat at the end of the week. Get her invested in solving the problem.

I have a 5 year old, they are smart enough to know what you're talking about.

Then put her to bed with whatever she's chosen and when/if she cries tell her you love her but it's bed time. You need to be consistent and you might have a couple of difficult evenings but you'll crack it in a couple of days as long as you don't give in!

Rather than an audio book you could try kids sleep hypnosis on YouTube. DD is 5 and a few weeks ago it got to the point where we would be in her room for hours at bedtime. I searched for sleep hypnosis and a woman called Elaine Martin on YouTube had the longest videos, they're about 30 minutes long and are just kids stories. To me her voice isn't particularly soothing but it must be to a 5 year olds ears. I don't see the difference between that and a soothing audio book, DH was against it at first because he didn't want to "hypnotise" DD but it really isn't anything sinister We just put the iPad on the floor so DD can't see the screen, she's always asleep within 10/15 minutes and she loves her Elaine stories. Bonnie the dog, the first alien one, the magic garden and max & Mimi are our favourite Elaine Martin stories, but there are loads to choose from.

Could DD1 fall asleep in your bed whilst you are getting DD2 to sleep?

I did this with DS2 for a while and would just move him into his own bed (he knew he would be put in his own bed at night).

You have to be firm, say it like you mean it and follow through with what you have said will happen. Children usually respond well to clear boundaries but they sense weakness! You are not doing her any favours (on many levels) giving in to wailing. Tell her the new routine and stick to it. Give lots of praise when she gets the hang of it.

1.get her to help with baby's bed time routine.

1. Emphasise how much you love your special time together at bedtime and if she wakes up baby that get interrupted.
2. If she can prove how big and clever she is 6 nights of the week by going to sleep by herself she gets to stay up half an hour later on a fri/sat. Because that's what happens when you're older.
3. Children's guided meditations work wonders.

Please remember she's not much more than a baby herself and you have been doing exactly what you needed to do for her. Also as she gets older the time you have together, just the two of you, becomes much rarer and more precious. My oldest is 10 and I still read to him and cuddle. It's the time of day with no distractions when he talks to me about his thoughts and feelings.

Thanks for the suggestions. Putting her to sleep in our room doesn't work as she finds it too exciting and gets annoyed about DD2 crying. We've done gradual retreat and checking several times over the years, most recently over the summer. She is sensible enough to have a proper conversation about it, she does understand I have stuff to do and DD2 to sort. We're going to try sticker chart plus hypnosis as the audiobooks haven't done much (plus she'll often start crying or shouting if she doesn't like it), keep going with lots of special big girl time and maybe trial occasional later bedtimes as a special reward too.
Thank you to those of you who've said they've been in a similar place or that I haven't failed, I appreciate that, I feel really bad about myself for getting into this habit so it's nice to have some reassurance. We are firm with her and set clear boundaries, follow consequences through, this is literally the only issue we have.

You are doing brilliantly and your DC are lucky to have such a kind and gentle mummy. My only suggestion is that some kids don't like being promoted to Big Girl / Big Boy because actually it's nice being little and it's scary growing up. So maybe a bit of phrasing about how great it is to get enough sleep so we have energy to do xyz fun activities the next day, might help her see the positive effect of going to bed.

I have no advice as currently going through the same thing. My DD is 4 and we have a 5 month old baby. Since he was born I have to lie in bed with her until she's asleep or she hysterically screams and cries.

She's terrified of being alone (I think she's under the impression that we're all downstairs without her having a great time) and in the beginning I had the rage and probably shouted more than I'd like and made things worse. Plan to just continue as we are until her anxiety subsides. You have my sympathy though, I have DH to settle the baby while I sort out DD.

You haven't let her down at all OP, a new sibling is a massive change for a child and you've been there for her when she needs you.

I made sure my DDs were tired from fresh air and exercise, then had the same routine every night. Bath, teeth, then I took them both into my bed and read stories to them until they were sleepy. I then put them each in their own bed or cot with dummy and or teddy as appropriate and kissed them goodnight. I didn’t go back in.
I think routine is comforting for youngsters, and reading stories yourself while cuddling (or getting the child to read to you) is better than leaving them alone with an audiobook. They feel they’ve had a fair dose of your time and attention!
There was only a 16 month age gap with my two, but the toddler was proud of being the “big girl” and having a bed instead of cot, and she also liked fetching the clean nappy from the packet at change time etc.

They had dummies from birth to two years, so were both used to self sucking themselves to sleep.

In a situation where a child is anxious, and a parent has had enough, I think the gradual withdrawal method is best.

Have a conversation with dd prior to starting it around why this needs to happen, and how you will do it.

Start by sitting next to her bed with your arm around her, or resting on her.
By the end of the week move to holding her hand only, then a few days later, still sitting close but with a jumper for her to hold of yours.

Then the plan is to gradually move away from her bed and closer to the door, each time waiting until she’s asleep.

By the time you’re st the door you then start reducing the time you are in with her (benefit of sitting at the door is: you can take your phone and entertain yourself mostly).

Reassure her that even if you leave whilst she is asleep you will check on her every 5 minutes. Then do it.

Then increase the amount of time between checks, from 5 yo7, from 7 to 10 etc.

Within a couple of months your child is settling herself and you will have your evening back. Without tears.

Good luck. My ds was 3 when I did this. He was reluctant, which made me feel guilty, but he responded really well and I know it’s for his own good.

I am typing this message from the bed of my 3.5 yr old 😂 I know I have to stop laying with her but cant face it yet!

I think I was laying with my eldest daughter until she was 5. Then as a pp said we did the gradual retreat. It worked well but does take time. Maybe choose a long weekend or half term, and/or when your partner is home to help with the baby.

Dont be hard on yourself xxx

@GetUpAgain That's a good point about the "big girl" thing and thank you for all your lovely words
She had lots of fresh air today (dragged her out for a very long walk after school and we had a good talk about everything) and we've always had a strict bedtime routine! Tonight she shouted for 10 mins, I went back in for a cuddle and reminded her about the stickers/promise of an LOL doll if she gets to 10, she requested an audiobook and was asleep within a few minutes. Trying not to think about the fact that she's clearly been capable of this for a while

That is great news, well done! I remember feeling 'cheated' after all my ways of trying to detach DS from his grotty piece of comfort rag. Including offering him cold hard cash . Turned out the offer of swapping it for a crappy plastic piece of tat was all he needed and he chucked it out the window crowing 'bye bye blankie' as he played with his new figure and never looked back. All my fears about his emotional development evaporated

When she got to 20 she chose a day out as a reward
@OhWifey for a brief moment I pictured you cuddling your 20 year old in bed 😁. That could have been me; DD loved to keep us with her and as she was an only child we didn't fight it, just took turns. But she got to a stage where she wanted to read her book herself and just naturally transitioned to falling asleep by herself. We can't really take any credit for that. I think it helped that she had a babysitter regularly while we went to choir - she had no investment in keeping the babysitter with her for longer, so just said goodnight.
Sounds as though you're already feeling better, OP and you've had excellent advice.