'Bribed to breastfeed'

[AmIThough]

On Good Morning Britain today, they're talking about a new scheme to offer mothers shopping vouchers in return for breastfeeding.

Personally I think it seems unreasonable. As mothers we do what's right for us and our children. Breastfeeding isn't right for everyone and there's already a lot of pressure for us to do so.

All of my friends and I tried to breastfeed.

I have been successful but choose to combination feed which works best for me.

Some friends haven't been able to continue breastfeeding for various reasons - pain, MH etc

One even got told she needed to FF as the baby wasn't getting enough nutrition.

Would this have made a difference to the choices you made?

Is the NHS actually paying for these vouchers, though? Or is it like sponsorship/advertising and you can only use at certain stores? If the latter, then odds are it isn't actually taking any of the (little) money earmarked for breastfeeding education and support.

It’s probably Public Health England.

yy Toroto this

"Last time I checked women do still have autonomy over their own bodies... 👏

I knew a few young mums when I had my eldest 17 years ago. They didn’t think it was cool to breastfeed and none of them even tried. They got milk vouchers because they had a low income.
I’ve since seen many young mums with the same attitude. I’m not saying none of them do it as I know my cousin fed her son for 2.5 years at 23 and I thought that was amazing.
I don’t think there is any harm in encouraging it and I do think these vouchers are probably aimed at the younger parents on lower incomes.
I think when it is pushed on someone though, that can be damaging.

I think the demographic posting here are not who this is aimed at. In some circles, bf is simply not done - no one even tries. My childcare, and all her friends (many have babies) her sisters, etc didn’t even entertain the idea. I’m pretty sure her mum didn’t either. That’s who needs to be targeted, and to be honest I have no idea why they didn’t/won’t try - maybe someone should research it properly?

My guess is as edgeofheaven said. (Well put)

Is there a published cost for formula feeding out there? Eg avg cost to ff a child is £xxx?

Let’s be fair, if everyone stopped ff overnight (cost if formula,bottles, cleaning and sterilising etc) the amount of money lost to retailers and business (not sure if these products like bottles are taxed) would be absolutely huge, so there is a massive vested interest in keeping a good proportion on ff. the people making the money are not the same ones as who get the nhs bill.

Saying all that, Fed is best and we are so lucky to live in a time and country where every baby is able to access safe water,safe formula (including specialist like lactose free) and be given the best chance of thriving.

I was also surprised how hard bf was it hurt like hell at the beginning and was literally constant. No one warned me! I fed both till over a year though and if you can get through those first few months it gets much easier, but they are a long few months.

Proper support and them actually realising that she did have a serious tongue tie would have been more useful personally. I suffered through and felt immense guilt before trying a bottle. The bottle helped us all finally get some sleep which I desperately needed after a massive haemorrhage. Her tongue tie was finally diagnosed when she was three months old when an amazing health visitor visited while she was feeding and referred us to a specialist. Having the tie snipped transformed her feeding but it was unfortunately too late to resume breastfeeding at that point. I still feel guilt that I failed and wish I had persevered with demanding help in the early days bit I was totally depleted of everything.

I do want another baby but then I feel guilty that I will have let my eldest down if another baby has successful breastfeeding while she didnt .

I don't agree with this, we shouldn't be bribing mothers into breastfeeding. The money for this should go towards providing parents with unbiased information, education and support on all feeding options so that they can make their own choices.

Dreadful!t in which a young woman was on trial for the murder of her baby (it was manslaughter in the end); the baby had starved because she persisted with breastfeeding, had signed a contract with a breastfeeding specialist that she would not give the baby formula. She knew he wasn't well but no one helped her even though she tried, taking him to a clinic etc. The breastfeeding expert woman was like a Nazi in her zeal.

It was harrowing and heartbreaking.

After "Dreadful!" I put that I watched an episode of Law and Order last night in which....
for some reason, though I typed it, it hasn't come out in my post.

I'm not sure whether the shopping vouchers would encourage breastfeeding more.
To be honest, I was thoroughly unprepared for the beginning of our breastfeeding journey, even though I attended a breastfeeding class before giving birth. All I learned there was about the benefits, which I already knew about.

Ideally I'd encourage more talk about the difficulties of breastfeeding, so that mothers do not feel like failures when it doesn't work straight away, or hurts, or a latch isn't great.

The awareness needs to be better... if they put money into that, I reckon more people would give it a try, as they'd know that the whole "baby will latch on a eat straight away" & "it will be an idyllic experience" chat can be total pish.

I know that in Switzerland your health insurance used to give you a big pay out if you breastfed for 6 months (back in the day when I was a child). Makes sense for them to do that as an incentive as they're then less likely to have to pay for treatment for said children at a later stage. Don't think that's a thing anymore though.

But that was fiction right?

I know multiple lactation consultant and they would never ever get a woman to do such a thing - a big part of their job is supporting women in combi feeding when top ups are necessary and then supporting them to continue breastfeeding if that’s what they want. Or stop if that’s what they want.

But this is private help only available to those who can afford it.

I think it is absolutely the wrong approach. Moral issues aside, though obviously important, it is simply illogical. There is already a financial 'incentive' in that formula is expensive.

My baby was always a very very fussy feeder . He would feed hourly or more , was always coming off the breast crying he never seemed content breastfeeding and every feed hurt I still have scars on my nipples. we paid so much money out to get help and also used nhs services. We spent so much time trying to get the latch sorted I could cry when I think how many months I was miserable just because I felt this overwhelming pressure to breastfeed and felt like a failure because it was always painful but because he was gaining so much weight no one seemed to care about my body just as long as baby was ok . I went to see an osteopath and told her about how he would feed constantly and I felt like a prisoner in my own home unable to leave the house , I said he would just feed and feed but still not be content and it was getting me down she just brushed it off and said well that's what maternity leave is for to look after them . I look back now and think no my maternity leave was not there for me to be stressed to the max about breastfeeding attending numerous support sessions a week, paying out all my savings on lactation consultants , feeling so low and down. We have finally stopped breastfeeding at 7 months as he went on a nursing strike and yet I am still being asked by numerous people ( work colleagues , neighbours family) if I am still breastfeeding , this fascination with how mums are feeding is quite frankly odd and I don't see how it concerns anyone else mums should not have to justify their choices to anyone. As my midwife said formula is there as a damn good alternative and If someone wants to use it because they don't want saggy boobs or they want their partner to feed then that is absolutely fine, so glad I am realising this now but as a new mum I was sadly brainwashed by the breastfeeding brigade . I remember going to a group and crying at the pain and frequency I mentioned giving a bottle of formula at night and they acted like I had said to give him whisky , they sent me a link that day to the dangers of formula. Disgraceful and people like that can make mums depressed. vouchers are a sick idea making mums think they would need to carry on in difficult situations

Just wanted to add that maternity leave should be about enjoying your baby not stressing about breastfeeding . I feel like contacting that osteopath to tell her how awful she made me feel " well that's what your maternity leave is for " rude condescending cow

Of the people I’ve known who haven’t wanted to even try breastfeeding it comes down to body issues. A number knew they would be too embarrassed to feed in public (do they know about aprons and other “modesty” products?) and the rest were just disgusted at the idea of a baby sucking their nipple

They are very deep rooted issues. First group know that they are embarrassed for others to see their breasts. Second group are either disgusted by breast sucking generally or see their breasts as solely a sexual function.

If I remember rightly in the trial the vouchers were accompanied by pretty heafty support from the community (health visitors I imagine) I suspect the vouchers were an incentive to get them in the door and keep them coming to follow up sessions more than anything

@adagio you haven't let your first baby down by FF - please don't feel like that.

Second group are either disgusted by breast sucking generally or see their breasts as solely a sexual function.

I’ve heard this said maybe once or twice and find it really sad. I know some some can have an aversion, especially when pregnant and breastfeeding - which is a physical issue - but it’s quite upsetting and frustrating to think that some just see their breasts as a sexual body part, when obviously their main function is to produce milk for babies. There’s something quite immature about it too.

@bubs80, your post really speaks to me and I recognise so many of those feelings.

Thing is, I think now that this is a fairly normal experience of bf but it just isn’t talked about so people aren’t put off. I ended up bf past 2 so despite it being hard I preserved because that’s what I wanted to do.

I fought so hard with dd around things like sleeping, constantly wanting to be glued to me etc throughout my maternity to implement what people kept commenting I ‘should’ be doing but their well meaning advice just wasn’t based on a bf baby. Truthfully, I wanted an easier baby too - I was broken!

It all got easier when dd was about nine months and I just stopped battling her. I’d gone back to work and just didn’t have the energy. Now I look back and feel like my maternity leave was wasted by me constantly trying to fit in a box that was just never going to fit us and at the heart of it was the fact she was bf and therefore I was her primary source of sustenance and comfort. Just how it was and I wish someone, anyone, had just said it was okay and that I was just giving her what she needed instead of the constant ‘looks’ about why she wasn’t sleeping through or I wasn’t more independent from her. One particularly memorable occasion I got asked when I was going to be ‘fun’ again by the same person who had lectured me about bf when I was pregnant (and had two ff dc themselves). That comment still brings up emotions for me when I recall it.

My point being eduction needs to wider and more honest - that’s where the money should be invested. Memorable moments for me include telling the nurse I didn’t know how I was going to get her to latch without help before I was discharged (the hca’s Just seemed to magically bung her on me), crying to the GP and HV about how much I was struggling and in pain and getting nothing - I found out there was (advertised no where) a drop in bfing session in the twin over when they verbally announced a going back to work talk at a rhyme time session when dd was about 7 months and YouTube had taught me by then!

I’m in the baby stage of life... I don’t know a single mother who has had to use formula who doesn’t feel terrible about it.

Erm I don't. I also don't feel terrible about having a CS. I also don't feel terrible about not carrying my baby around in a rainbow sling and I don't feel terrible about going back to my career when he was 7 months.

I refuse to waste my time 'feeling terrible' because other women feel the need to tell me I should.

FFS

Will they let me backdate my shopping vouchers? I've being going for a year now and nursing bras are expensive..

If it encourages people to breastfeed or at least to give it a go it can't be a bad thing, however it would probably make more sense to invest the money in breastfeeding support which in most places is non existent once you leave the hospital.

Good for you Greyhound22, I thought I was the same but turns out I wasn’t and the pressure got to me. Hormones, lack of confidence who knows but it’s definitely an average experience for women to feel pressured, particularly after their first baby.

Which is why the NHS really shouldn’t be piling on more pressure instead of actual support. Their message vs actual working practice doesn’t add up for a lot of women who just need someone supportive on their side, ff or bf.

Initiatives like vouchers are condescending and worthless in this context.

Breastfeeding is a positive health behaviour (I say this as someone who bf one baby to 15 months and ff the other). We incentivise lots of positive health behaviours, like weight loss, stopping smoking, getting health screening tests, etc. I can’t see why breastfeeding is any different and if it produces positive health outcomes, great, why not? I work in clinical research and we trial things like this all the time. You don’t know if something works and is feasible unless you roll it out and see how it goes. Health interventions always annoy someone, but if they produce good outcomes and save the NHS money that could be better spent on other areas in children’s health, that’s great.

There’s something quite immature about it too

Says who? If there was no other option but bfing maybe but that’s not the case. If a woman sees her breasts as a strong element of her sexuality then that’s perfectly okay.

Breastfeeding actually has no particular effects on breasts. It is pregnancy that changes your breasts, not breastfeeding.

watermark.silverchair.com/28-5-534.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAl8wggJbBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggJMMIICSAIBADCCAkEGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMn3Z5I8_GnlfXw-XsAgEQgIICErriuCR8e7to_l9giV2lsLu-ZF-8R22v-EI-CH1p-38QrEmSv74WQKe8Rj6Q-DXdtUSJf2-rfEDXUdh6LWX380mhfyn1Bpsw7PnxmzgaWyEgXaUsM2iZ8Vo4s0H5hTyuTwfvMfi2OA285lVeI0XV0KkT6b2W7u-TR4jKlR7JlbfWEiPC22sKI0SvSOoGD2_VyXIXjCOoOekSQ_HFdPaGyZipLBZBMRez-hWPEUQp1-Mi2EN25H9Y4OZjjM3uR2OOXdQuTVzYEioVjIpGCnErxprMdYsQA0qWwYZFlgdWsr_w1mcdEh5Oz_3u4W9H7FJDe1Sj9edQq4GMaIAO0FE4IAmXMVCGTKz5gKMbHDLl3c1LtyYxJ3fr7-owxVjRj6i5DWvUPqZYfb5x6dlNNHDkax90P_R_RF7H81vC4rjUXSYn5__DDUCbAOSorSPdkjUzFeswn7NnZs0e31c9tbpdbDQOARo6IoG6Pj5QRiD7PaT_ErIya6LwGVx0bCmgBP1xO8fRy1RptG4-hfS1WtP9p4zLxsgyM5kScUBKpECW9kRr0OcQ_FQYez2VNpx-Z5aldYAlOGhhauDEtFL9mkgmM_ULkL0Je_AoW5tDjFxfeJ-Alw4BonJjgxfCkvbUXOy-B_Ruodb-v0voua9aLRlRfrp99yAAbvlBVXuPAe-bhsNhqI-ViqhWkQ2CD8kF37KafOHm

"Greater age, higher body mass index, greater number of pregnancies, larger prepregnancy bra size, and smoking were identified as significant independent risk factors for postpregnancy breast ptosis (P < .05). Breastfeeding was not found to be an independent risk factor for ptosis."

'I’m in the baby stage of life... I don’t know a single mother who has had to use formula who doesn’t feel terrible about it.

Erm I don't. I also don't feel terrible about having a CS. I also don't feel terrible about not carrying my baby around in a rainbow sling and I don't feel terrible about going back to my career when he was 7 months.

I refuse to waste my time 'feeling terrible' because other women feel the need to tell me I should.

FFS'

Absolutely

Can dangle any bloody vouchers they fancy.

I loved the baby stage and I think it's possibly due to the choices I made.

Awful that women are made to feel 'terrible'

Ugh