Telling children off for everything or letting them "get away" with stuff.

[Withnailandaye]

More of a wwyd and want to have a discussion about this.

Right now, dd 4.5, is sneeking into the kitchen on the pretence of "going to the toilet" to pinch the sugar paper off the cup cakes she made yesterday.

I know what's she's doing and don't care, it's sugar paper and they're her cakes anyway.

I can tell she thinks she's being a genius by 'fooling' me in such a way.

It's got me thinking; in a way I suppose she's being 'naughty' (using that word lightly) but I'm also wondering if allowing her to carry on is good for her self esteem?? In the sense she feels she's got one over me.
But i dont know if it's a good thing or a bad thing!?

With children, should you be chastising them for every time they do something like this, in the name of obedience, or is allowing them to get away with things actully good for them??

Fwiw, as I stopped typing that last sentence I had to tell her off for swinging on the curtain, so she certainly doesn't get away with everything

I would probably have told her off. Just because it's setting a behaviour that I wouldn't want to continue, sneaking behind my back rather than asking permission. But that's just me.

I don't believe you have to discipline a child to make them aware what they are doing is wrong, a look and a few words is all it takes in some cases. Sometimes that has much more affect!

See that's what was going through my head. That if she's thinking she's getting away with being sneeky I could in a way be encouraging it in the future by not saying something, but then on the other hand I found it quite funny that she was thinking she was getting away with and how pleased she was of herself

I wouldn’t encourage sneaky behaviour, there are better ways to build her self esteem.

It sounds extremely cute and you don't care that she's doing it so I would save your energy. I'm sure you can do some big 'oh dear, what's happened to the cakes' panto if you feel the need.

but I'm also wondering if allowing her to carry on is good for her self esteem?? In the sense she feels she's got one over me.
But i dont know if it's a good thing or a bad thing!?

I’ve heard it all now
If you’re not bothered then why not just let her know? Explain they’re her cakes, she can do what she wants. You’re massively overthinking this.

Why does she feel she has to sneak into the kitchen to do this? I really don’t like sneaky behaviour when it comes to food in my house - if you’re hungry or want to eat then you either ask or help yourself (depending on what you want to eat).

I don't think a 4 year-old thinking she can easily get one over on her parents is a great thing tbh. This is obviously a very minor disobedience, and catching her at it would probably be enough to chasten her. Children don't learn good behaviour from nowhere, and it's much easier to relax the rules later than to be trying to claw back some control when they're pre-teens with entrenched habits.

It pays to be consistent - encourage behaviour you want them to have, and discourage behaviour you don't want. She knows she's 'being naughty'. This time it's sugar paper, but encouraged by her success it might be something worse next time.

Eh, I’d ‘catch’ her doing it and be a bit joky-surprised, and then explain if she wants a cake she can have one but it’s better not to tell fibs, even about small things.

But then I don’t like lying at all, so that would be my concern.

I’d make sure she knew she wasn’t in trouble about it, though.

You can’t tell them off for everything, so you have to pick your battles.

If you will be ok with devious behaviour in other circumstances, let it go.

Base your battles on your values- who do you want her to be?

I'm not really over thinking anything, was just wanting to have a discussion about it as I'm bored stuck at home today.

Exactly, they're her cakes and she's welcome to them. I'm sure if they were something special she would know not to touch or at least ask.
They've been left on the bench for her to have as and when (she gets sick of sweet things pretty quickly so I have no worries about her going mad on them, she just likes the little sugar paper stamp things on top)

It's the way she's saying "I'm going to the toilet" ×10 then tip toeing into the kitchen (I can see her) them coming out with icing on her face

Like she feels she's tricking me, she's not really, I don't even care but she obviously thinks she is so I'm wondering, as she feels she's being sneeky should i allow her to continue with her triumph over me or for the sake of 'discipline' mention it to her so she knows I'm not being fooled?

Have no fear, I know this is minor and I don't spend my days worrying over such things, was more of a musing than anything.

You can’t tell them off for everything, so you have to pick your battles.

But this isn’t a battle - OP doesn’t care about the cakes. Why would you tell a child off if you think what they’re doing is fine?

It doesn't need to be a telling off, but just mention it. You could say something like 'is there any sugar paper left?'

sometimes these situations are quite good... She thinks she is being ultra sneaky, you know what she's doing, you mention it to her and then she thinks you have eyes in the back of your head meaning she will think twice about doing naughty/sneaky stuff in future.

I don't think this is a helpful precedent. I'd tell her they were her cakes, and agree that she's allowed to eat one per day (or whatever is appropriate, obviously) and that she doesn't have to sneak off to do it, she's allowed to. And if you don't think she's capable of self-regulating that way, only leave one cake daily in a place that is accessible to her, and keep the others high up.

I've actually often been surprised by DS (7)'s self-regulation about sweets. He has a 'treat bag' (last Halloween's swag, and things like the contents of Easter eggs etc go in there, too) that he has access to, and is allowed one small thing from it a day after dinner -- but it never seems to occur to him to abuse it, and he's (commendably) got a strong sense of when he's had enough to eat, regardless of whether it's chocolate cake or broccoli, which I'm encouraging.

So in that sense I like giving young children 'ownership' over their own food intake within reason, but I realise it depends on the child.

Exactly my point- if it’s not a battle OP is interested in, she doesn’t need to have it. Thanks for illustrating, Pixie.

Sorry, X-post with you, OP. I would explicitly tell her that she doesn't have to sneak off to eat her cakes, she's allowed to do it.

I think it's essential to have guidelines and boundaries, rather than rules. However, if you specifically say a child can't do something, you should stick to it. If you don't then the boundaries become blurred and the child doesn't know where they stand. If a child does something you've told them not to do, there should always be consequences. It's up to you, as a parent, to decide where your boundaries are but there will be some things that are not negotiable. For example the child's safety.

Children who have parents who set guidelines and boundaries and stick to them, feel loved and secure.

Great idea @FindaPenny! Do that OP. She then hasn’t been “told off” for something you don’t mind about, but will think twice in future before sneaking around.

My DD has always been pretty well behaved, Ive always taken the approach that telling off is for hurting someone, putting themselves in harms way or breaking something on purpose.

In your situation I would do what pillowcase suggests. If they were meant to be family cakes I might go down the consequences road, suggest to her that we sit down with a drink and cake and then when I saw the paper icing was gone act a little disappointed because its my favourite part and I was excited to eat XYZ character. It gives her chance to come clean and to see the natural consequence of taking things that are supposed to be shared but would hopefully avoid the instant denial that comes with being told off “I didn’t do it” etc. Then you can have a hug enjoy your drink and cake and not ruin both of your afternoons.

Also children her age are just starting to learn to lie, its an important skill to know how and when, a fib is ok or not and shell be practicing it a lot over the next few years.

I’m sure it’s fine. You could say oh I think I might have one of those cakes. See what she says but it’s fine.

socialisation and discipline isn't about telling off, it's about educating.
So educate her, it's not a case of them getting away with things.
I'd say I can see you, don't think I don't know what you're doing.
I love it when they ask how you know things, the replies can be quite inventive "Eyes at the back of my head" "I've been on this planet a lot longer than you" etc.

In a situation like the cakes / sugar paper, I wouldn't tell her off. I would however, tell her that I knew what she was doing, in a jokey, "cheeky chops" kind of way and it was fine, as long as she understood that there wouldn't be any sugar paper on the cakes later when she wanted to eat them.