To say I am finding this hard is probably the understatement of the century.

[FoghornLeghorn]

I feel like I can't cope with DD1 anymore

DD1 is 3 (also have DD2 who is 8 months) and I really struggling at the minute with discipline. I am quite strict, I don't let her get away with some of the things DH does where he says "she's only 3".

I have tried the naughty step - doesn't work. I have tried removing favourite toys & books for a certain amount of time - doesn't work. I have tried no DVD's for certain period of time - doesn't work.
I always give her 3 warnings before one of these happen and I always tell her if she keeps ignoring me/doing whatever it is she is doing that I am trying to stop then one of these things is going to happen. As they don't work it usually ends up in me shouting or smacking her - which again don't work, just make me feel like shit for making her cry

I'll give you some examples of what she has done just today, bearing in mind it is only 9.30ish - tried playing her Brum DVD on my laptop when I asked her not to touch it (I literally went into kitchen to put plate in dishwasher), threw Shrek DVD on floor so I asked her to pick it up to which she just replied No continuosly for about 2 minutes eventually she did after I threatened her with one of the usual things. She then apologised, gave me a hug and said she wanted to go and sit on her bed for a rest and play toys, she had been upstairs about 2-3 minutes before i came up to find red paint all over the wall of her bedroom and her telling me she has painted sparkles !
She was smacked and is now sitting on her bed playing, while I am feeling shit because I've smacked her and feel useless because I just can't seem to deal with her.

She blatantly ignores people - you could stand right in front of her calling her name and if she doesn't want to answer you, she wont, she will just act as if you aren't there.
She may be bored but it is 9.30am and I have a 8 month old to sort out too - we go out every day so she is always kept busy, whether is visiting people, park, picnic, swimming - there is always something we are doing.

She is such a gorgeous little girl and is at times the sweetest thing I have ever seen, she is funny and smart and I love the bones of her.
Me and DH argue all the time, he hates me shouting, his answer is "she's 3, she doesn't know" or "We were just as bad at her age". My Mum & MIL think she is bored and playing up because she needs to get to school and be more stimulated for longer.

I don't know what I expect from posting this, I just feel like a bit of a failure not being able to cope with a 3 year old

Noooo come on, parenting is not black and white. And yes, half an hour of Every Increasing Irritation Snap, or even just teaching her to do roly polies on the carpet, can help with much better behavior for the rest of the day.

last message then I am off for a bit to do some work

I had a bad day last week, really snapping with dd2 and at night she said 'don't shout mummy' when she dropped her toothbrush on the floor and I felt about an inch high, really crap

so the next day I thought, I am not going to nag and shout, and just count to 10 and think 'does it matter?'

and it was a far better day

I think you need to loosen up a bit, remind yourself that she is only 3 and will be a pain in the arse but is little and really a big baby. No smacking, no shouting, lots of explaining and cuddles. One on one when dd2 naps.

Try it and see (also check out that book)

xx

FoghornLeghorn,

Don't give up. Different things work for different children. I would encourage you to try redirection.

Here is an example for before she
"tried playing her Brum DVD on my laptop when I asked her not to touch it"

Can you help mommy like a big girl? How about if you open the door for me?

or afterward

Sweetie you know what would be really fun to do? How about if we pull out your colors and you can color in your coloring book?

This is really a distraction method that stops them from behaving poorly in the first place.

Fair enough Soapbox.

I will try that OO

I think there's a point (especially when you've got a younger one) where their behaviour takes on a different significance. It might not be that they are behaving any worse, but you see it differently. I don't know if you suddenly see them as children rather than toddlers, but I've found there is point (for me at around 3.5) where behaviour that I've maybe been a bit indulgent over (on the basis at they're little and they don't 'understand' or have impulse control) suddenly starts to really annoy me because they should know better. The thing is I might have realised this, but I think it takes a bit longer for my DC to In the meantime I've got to resist the urge to be draconian because they haven't changed, it's me.

Totally agree with some of the points made

Pick your battles, don't tempt her by leaving things out, do stuff with just her (can't see why that can't be housework btw DS1 used to love 'helping', was a pita sometimes but at least he was in view and not breaking anything )

I don't think you're a bad mother at all. DD's my third '3yo' and I still haven't managed to cope with it with any degree of dignity....roll on Nursery in september!

We've been out to view a new house - popped to tesco and brought a 2 tennis rackets and a ball. We are going to play in garden after lunch

my take on it is prolly just repeating.

laptop and paints out of reach. it doesn't really matter whether she should know better the fact is they get messed with and it makes you cross, so remove the temptation. make things as easy as you can for both of you. PICK YOUR BATTLES.

don't expect her to be cowed or remorseful or really understand being on the step. the point is to remove her from the situation and give you a chance to calm down. keep putting her back on the step, without engaging with her. you can give her a brief explanation of why she was there when she comes off, but don't expect it (appear to) sink in. that will come in time, for the moment you're going through the motions and most importantly diffusing anger on both sides.

3 chances is too many.

different approaches w/dad is possible if all else is running smoothly, but doesn't help if you're having discipline probs ime. sit down together talk about the issues and agree a plan of attack together

around this age i started counting to 3 (if i reached 3 she'd go on the stairs), we found it a wonderful motivator and it helped her to distinguish between when i was just asking and when i was telling iykwim.

olive's examples of "talking around the issue" - to avoid confrontation when it's not absolutely necessary - are great, take note.

not a huge fan of star charts but they worked for us for specific flashpoints (e.g. getting dressed in morning, or bedtime routine). the stickers themselves were the best motivator for ddd1, she never really got the point/hang of a big prize at the end. i personally wouldn't use charts where anything gets taken away, or for just general good behaviour, i think it needs to be specific for kids this age to be able to understand it.

whenever possible we respond to bursts of bad behaviour with extra one-on-one time. just half an hour a day (regularly) seems to help a lot.

you're doing an immensely difficult job and it sounds as though it might just take a few tweaks for you and dd1 to start enjoying each other again. something i heard on here that made me laugh (ruefully) the other day was never mind the terrible twos it's the f*ing frees you need to worry about

We've played tennis - DD helped me peg washing out - watched Aladin - played Cars - played on her Dora Laptop.........

.... and I have noticed a difference in her already.

She came and gave me a hug when we were playing cars and said "we're best friends mummy" and

That's lovely. You know you can do it. It sounds like you just got bogged down into a negative rut.

I feel like I just shout and am cross and miserable all the time - she must think
that too. Have felt better today though

hi there - just having a nose as my DT's are 2.8 and i am going through the agonising time of deciding what method of discipline to use, whether to use any yet, do they understand etc etc. I think at 2 and half going on three they can appear older than they are and so we expect loads from them. You assume cos they behaved one day that the next will be the same and when it isn't get angry.

My LO has an obsession with plugs and plug sockets. He's a real observer so has seen me plug things in and use them, so doesn't see why he can't. He's not being naughty he is 'helping' - he goes and plugs my hairdryer in while i get out the bath - he brings me my phone charger and phone when he hears it beeping and wants to plug it in for me - he is adorable BUT it's dangerous, if he did it while red switch down and didn't do it properly it could be disasterous. So do i tell him off, do i distract? If i try to distract with 'thank you arthur, can mummy have that and you go and do suchandsuch for me' i get a screaming tantrum and usually a slap round the face thrown into the bargain at which point he has been naughty, but really i caused it!

Anyway, what i wanted to say was, when i am feeling calm and serene spending one on one time with each of them helps, plus getting them to help me with 'safe' tasks round the house distracts them too, but when i am having a bad day anyway, everything they do winds me up - even one of them coming up to stroke my arm cos i have shouted at the other one and telling me he is a good boy while fluttering his eyelids. Just tell him to stop sucking up!

oh, i found that explaining that their behaviour has upset mummy, or that hitting has hurt mummy sometimes gets their attention. Helps them realise their behaviour has a consequence. I was told not to use the word naughty and to use a time out step/corner/chair as if a child is labeled naughty more often than not they will live up to it. They need to know it's their action or behaviour that was the bad thing, not themselves. They also need to know after time out that you do still love them and that what they did, didn't make you love them any less.

wow. glad i joined netmums. i was on such a low today after picking my 3 yr old daughter up from gymnastics, only to be taken to the side and told that she has, for the last couple of weeks, been hitting and pushing the other kids for no apparent reason. they have given her time out several times but her behaviour is upsetting the group. I actually went home, phoned a friend and had a good cry cos i felt like such a failure. A year ago she was adorable but now she is constantly pushing the bounderies and testing me. also, the naughty step doesnt bother her and she smiles at me when i try to tell her off (trying to be cute so that i let her off). It has cheered me up immensly to know that other parents are struggling with their 3 year olds and that it gets better by 4. HOPEFULLY!!

HI. just thought i would add my 2 cents' worth:

1. there is a good thread on here about following the discipline methods in the HTTSKWL book. I haven't even bought the book yet but following the tips on the thread has improved the behaviour in our house loads.

2. I have just noticed that my boisterous and disobedient ds1 (2.4) actually responds better with a little more routine in his life -- I used to think that he needed more stimulation, so we would spend the whole day out & about, every day doing something different and new (even when ds2 was newborn). However, we now follow a similar routine (up-breakfast-dressed-bit of telly-walk/park-lunch-tidy-sleep-play time-me cooking-dinner-bath-bed) and his behaviour has improved dramatically, even when there are variations.

Don't feel like shit. You are taking active steps to improve your parenting. all that matters is that you do your best in any given moment and it sounds like you are trying.

It will get better and you must be knackered. A baby and a three year old - its bloody hard work.

Lots of good advice here - not going to repeat and I have made loads of mummy mistakes in the past, and will, no doubt, do in the future but one thing I found that worked is to praise (not in a special voice - that's nauseating and they see through it) anything you can. So if its 'please mummy can I have a biscuit' then 'well it've five mins to lunch so not at the moment cause it will spoil the yummy suprise - perhaps later and thank you for asking so nicely - well done' Also prewarning is good and prempting behaviour (although she might be a wee bit young) so 'Can I watch a video' - you know she's going to kick off when its time to turn it off to go and do something so 'Well I might but last time you had a paddy when it was time blah blah so IF I let you - what are you NOT going to do when we have to go out before its finished?' It puts the ball in their court and then if they do sucumb to the revoltingness then it gives you a fab excuse to say no next time.

Best of luck

Oooooooooooooooooo Soapbox

'3 year olds need attention and play and supervision. I suspect she is bored and attention seeking too.

You need to make much more time for her in the day. How long can housework take unless you live in a mansion, and how much time does an 8mo really demand? '

The 8 month old needs to be protected from the 3 year old in my house, therefore I can only do housework if one is asleep (preferably the 3 year old divil) but when he is awake and he is nearly 4, he wants ALL OF MY TIME, but so does DD who cries if put down. I am sure that baby has nightmares about DS putting things in her ears.

Tis' very hard if you have one like mine

You've got a lot on your plate.

Use rewards like stickers. Get a wee notebook and put headings in it like lunch, naps, general good girl and let her put a sticker under each one. Then explain that if she eats her lunch, is a good girl or whatever the issue is, she gets a sticker.

Does she like jigsaw puzzles? Does she like finger painting?

Maybe try one activity each morning like a timetable at school?

Sorry. My DS is 2.5 and he's tricky too right now and I'm just trying out different things on him.

Good luck.

Can completly understand how you feel, dd1 is 2.5, and dd2 is 18 weeks, dd1 is very demanding, when we go out, she constantly runs away, if I take the double pram out she gets out and runs away, if I take the single and put her on a wrist strap, she lays on the floor, shes a complete nightmare in shops, on buses ect, shes v. jealous of dd2, hits her any time shes allowed close enough, if I decide to not go out, shes 10x worse! no advice at all, just sympathy!

I was like this last year, baby and 3 year old, there is 20 days short of 3 years exactly between them and DS2 was poorly baby.

I tried to make DS1 join in housework with me when DS2 slept, so putting things into washing machine, taking them out. Passing me pegs, loves dusting, bought extra feather duster less than £1 from asda so he felt like he was doing the "grown up" things. Plus lots of reading books and lots of comments about well the baby can't swing on this swing etc etc

Also people are referring to "Nuro Lingustic Programming" -eg you are told to think of a blue elephant, then a pink monkey, then told NOT to think of the blue elephant, lo and behold you think of the blue elephant. It is also known as Positive Parenting so if your wee one is holding a cup and you say "don't spill it" they hear "spill it spill it" so you say instead "hold that cup tight"

I found I was saying NO all the time so tried things like "let's play with this instead" and made it a game for myself to not say the word no and re-phrase what I was going to say.

It was really hard but my two are now 4.2 and 15 months and it is soooo much easier. Preschool is a godsend!!! I was tested to my limit my fully potty trained son lay on the floor up to 6 times a day and weed into the carpet whilst I breastfed, attention seeking. So I seethed and didn't say anything, just cleaned it all up when DS2 had stopped feeding.

You will honestly look back to this and be really proud of yourself for surviving it.

oh leggers, poor you.

Look, 3 is an awful age, absolutely awful. They just wind you up in whatever way possible. And having two small children can also be awful at times.

Do you give choices a lot? 3 year olds can respond well to choices. 'You can go and choose a puzzle and I'll play is with you in 10 minutes or you can muck about with the laptop and miss your snack. What do you choose?' That sort of thing.

Not that I'm saying you should play with her loads. Heasvne knows I couldn't be bothered playing bossy games with t 3 year old all day when I had another small one.

Does she go to an activity of any kind - tumbletots thing? Do you go to a few toddler groups? Things where others take her attention?

I was thinking of you today fhlh, and pointydog is right, what about a day off for you both? My ds1 goes to nursery 1 day a week and it really helps -- gives me a break, gives him something to do in a structured environment, and he learns some rules from someone besides me. Is this an option for you or can you rope in family/friends to take dd1 off you for a morning or afternoon once a week? it would be especially beneficial if it were someone who had similar rules to you and didn't over-indulge her.
lots of other good ideas to try out on here, I especially like winky winkola's notebook idea, i might try that too.