Hitting and throwing things - how do you discipline to stop this?

[Janus]

My daughter, 26 months has just started hitting other children and myself and partner. I can actually see when she's going to hit me, something changes in her face and I can divert it but yesterday I went to see a friend and I could have cried with embarrassment about how badly she behaved with her 18 month old son. She hit him several times in the day on the head. Each time I told her very firmly no, it would hurt him, etc. When it continued I then put her in her pram in the hallway for a couple of minutes and left her there, explaining why she couldn't be in the lounge with us, ie because she had hit the little boy. When she came back she was OK for a while but did it again later in the day. We also went out for lunch and everything was launched off her highchair, toys I brought to try and keep her entertained, bits of her food, the menus that she snatched out of my hands, books, etc (of course while my friend's child sat like an angel for the entire hour!!!).
I don't want to smack her as I don't want to use this as a form of discipline and particularly in this instance I think it will confuse her. How else do I get it through to her that it's just not nice?
I know this is very much to do with her age, she's not monster!, it's all a fight for attention, etc, but while I try and ignore bad behaviour and praise good, etc, I cannot ignore hitting and don't know what the hell to do.
I honestly felt so ashamed of her and me as a parent yesterday and don't know what to do to help her, any suggestions???

My only experience of this was as a nanny when I was much younger. The children who hit were defintely attention seeking (often lovely kids underneath) and I had to handle it with no smacking. This usually worked but not always! First, did you praise her a lot and hug and kiss after a very short period of no hitting? Eg the minute she did something nice or just behaved in a neutral way (for example, you say she hit the boy again much later in the day so there must have been a period of good behaviour) say 'well done, that was lovely. I was so proud of you. You didn't hit and that was lovely etc etc .This is dull but works if repeated over and over again. I also think you should time out EVERY time she hits. So the minute she hits she has to go to her room, sit on a 'naughty stair' for a short period, so that hitting is immediately and predictably punished. If you are out somewhere she is enjoying I think you should just go home straight away. That way she knows the consequences and that they will be immediate. You shouldn't give warnings -eg 'if you do that again I'll...' the time out should come with every offence. It should be done in a clinical, cold way, no shouting, no eye contact, just out the door, alone on the naughty stair for 2 mins or so. Personally, I think complex explanations are not appropriate for this age group, also I wouldn't expect her to understand why it's wrong or empathise much with other children. You're trying to change her behaviour here, not her whole personality. This policy worked for me in very trying times in most cases - eventually! Good luck. You're not doing anything wrong, but I suspect she's just testing limits.

Janus,
I'm glad to hear that you are concerned - but without sounding too strict, you should be !It is a phase that soon stops however - if you deal with it correctly.

A great friend of mine has a child ( aged 30 months ) who "terrorises" other kids with nipping, scratching and hitting.
My pal has no sense of discipline and just mutters a feeble "no" under her breath. The upshot of this is that other children ( and sadly mothers too ) don't really want to be around this child as she cannot behave nicely - and all too often the play-time ends in disaster.

I'm too weedy to tell my pal what we all think!

But I am pleased for your DD as she will soon realise that antisocial behaviour is not allowed.
Kids must learn to socalise nicely.

Heck, don't I sound like a bossy cow !

Janus, please don't feel ashamed of your parenting skills - you are doing a great job. My ds is coming up to 29 months and is now just about (I hope) past the hitting stage. He started to hit, I think, in the New Year and I found it extremely embarrassing having to apologise to parents all the time - he seemed to like to hit younger children than himself, and occasionally would single out one particular child and I would have to stick to him like glue in case he struck out. I would always try to be close at hand to stop him hitting, but he would always manage to sneak one in when my concentration slipped for a moment!
After he had hit out, we would tell him that it's not nice to hit, say 'hello' instead, and if he continued we would remove him from the situation (we were usually at the park and I would sometimes leave 10 minutes after getting there).
We then tried telling him before we got to the park, 'no hitting' or we would be going home, and gradually as the months passed and he got older and more understanding, this seems to have sunk in, and if we have been to the park or playgroup and got through the session without incident, he would be praised to the skies.
I usually found that when I had to apologise to a parent, they usually said not to worry too much, as their child did the same! So try not to browbeat yourself too much, and repeat after me - "it's a phase, it's a phase, it's a phase!"

I agree with jodee, Janus- it sounds like you're handling this just fine.
Sometimes it helps me to think about what I'm trying to achieve and why when it comes to putting a stop to unwanted behaviour. EG: with hitting I want to both prevent other kids getting hurt and also for my kids to learn that hurting people is a no-no. So I do exactly what you do: explain that we don't hit because it hurts and, if necessary, remove them from the situation. If I'm feeling a rare patience I also try and work out why they hit in the first place, because I think it sometimes helps to say something like: "I know you are very angry with X because he is playing with your toy and you know you can't hit him..." type of thing. I agree with Jan Parker et al that acknowleging and naming the feelings behind the action can really help at times.
For what it's worth I'm not particularly keen on the "naughty chair/corner/stair" approach. I had a friend who went down this route and her daughter spends so much time in the "naughty corner" (deservedly!) that I fear for her self-image- will she start to think that she is generally speaking a "naughty" person? I don't think an occasional time-out is a bad thing but I prefer to approach it as you did with your daughter in terms of "I can't let you be in the room right now because you are hitting and that hurts."
The thing is that these ideas do take a while to sink in to a toddler brain, so lose the shame ASAP! A huge majority of toddlers go through this phase and if other parents see you consistently dealing with it and not letting it go most will feel that you're handling a normal, though difficult, stage very well. That's what I think anyway.

Actually, having said all this reasonable and rational stuff, I have to confess that I veered appallingly from my ideals in the playground today and myself behaved very badly. One of my sons accidentally tripped over a sandcastle- a v poor effort that he didn't see!- whereupon the much older children (9 & 11ish at a guess- my son is 3) building it proceeded to throw sand in his face, repeatedly. I should have said "I know you are angry that your (pathetic, rubbish) sandcastle was destroyed but please don't throw sand in my son's eyes," but actually I fixed them with a cold and furious glare, picked up my crying boy, flattened the remains of their sandcastle to the ground and stalked off without a word. I'm feeling guilty now...

Scummymummy that is hilarious!
IMO time out is the only really effective way to deal with this horrid stage of toddlerhood. I've been there too and when ds used to bite me I would put him in his cot for a short time explaining why etc. Only had to do it a couple of times and he got the message. With hitting I'd do the same, time out wherever that may be and being very firm that its not a nice thing to do. I always explain to him that I/daddy/nanny etc would never hit him, and this seems to make him think (for a few minutes!).Good Luck and it will pass sooner than you think... and then they're onto the next phase!!

In my defence I have to say my time outs were always very brief and pretty painless. And the postive rewards, praise, special games, cuddles, books etc are the other side of the coin and actually more important. I would not tolerate being hit, but the kids I used to look after speak fondly of me now. It's terrifying but least two of them are now married with babies of their own (yikes). I even went to one's wedding. I was only 19-20 when I was looking after them, though.

Scummymummy LOL

Scummy you're making me laugh again, I always think a little impulsive behaviour goes a long way...hope there weren't any CCTV cameras nearby!

I too am having this problem - my sons 22 months, he threw a corgi toy that hit me below my eye last night. He tends to lash out at me if there is someone else there, like his dad or Grandparents, like hes testing me or something.

They way I have been dealing with it so far, and it has been quite a rare occurance is I bring him towards me, arms straight by his side and hold both his hands and explain that hurt mummy and that it was naughty (by this time his little lips start quivering) and his head bows low. The toys were put out of reach for a while and he said 'Sowwee mummy, love yoo' straight away and didnt do it again.

Im a great fan of Robert Winston who said in one of his programmes on tele not too long ago, that if your child empathises with the fact that your hurt or at least recognises that, he/she will become kinder to your feelings. Im not sure youd all agree but it works for us, he gets very upset if i hurt myself, stub a toe etc!.

Scummymummy LOL I also have had two 'discussions' with pre-schoolers, once when we were in a local play area and I heard my boy screaming (he was 16 months and the boy about 4yrs) and this older lad had him in a headlock (with his parents just watching) i said that it wasnt a very nice thing to do to anyone let alone a baby.. my son uncontrollably cried for the next 30 minutes, and secondly when a girl of about 5 or 6 snatched my little boys book from him proclaiming he had never paid for it in the shop, when it was his own.. again uncontrollable crying from my little one, me saying that wasnt nice to another child and the parent just ignoring it and snarling at me.. whats up with these people..!

The phrase I dread hearing most from parents as their child does something dreadful and potentially dangerous is "we don't want to stifle his creativity". I've heard it several times, including once when a 4 y.o. was throwing large rocks around over the head of my crawling baby .

ohh no especially around babies all children have to be careful...

i cringe when i see other peoples children in potentially dangerous situation.

i was at a kids party on Sunday when a tiny (and he was small - looked about 10 months) 20 month old actually climbed into a high chair, which i thought was amazing anyway and then proceeded to come out head first, i jumped and picked him up and his mother stood there talking, am i weird or are some people a lot more laid back than me!

We went to the christening of an 18-month-old only child the other week, and every time our almost-5 y.o. ds wrestled with or charged at his sister (2 y.o.) lots of people (none of whom had more than one child) jumped to protect her. She, of course, is used to rough play with her big brother and is totally unfazed by it - as are we (2nd children being notoriously tough ). I'm sure some of the other parents there thought we were awful for not protecting our dd. And my mother had kittens the other week when ds climbed up something big at the adventure playground - I knew his capabilities and wasn't worried, whereas she was horrified.

That said, falling out of highchairs is slightly different matter.

my ds got his first bashing in the nursery playground yesterday - apparently the child that did it didn't get told off as they don't agree with that, they just separate the children untilt hey have forgotten about it. i felt v. sensitive about this esp. as i spend so much time explaning to him why he shouldn't hit others then someone does it to him and nothing happens ..... i know feel like saying 'go and give him a big wollop back'!! Of course i won't though.

I discouraged my children from hitting back with the result that when the oldest went to secondary school he was bullied. As this thread has pointed out other children do not play by the rules, sometimes with parents who don't give a damn. I have now changed my opinion and given my som licence to thump anyone who hits him first. I will not tolerate him starting a fight but he now knows that he can defend himself without worrying about my reaction. I so wish I had done this from an earlier age - contraversial I know.

emilys, that sounds silly - why not tell them off if they've done something so obviously wrong like hitting another child?! Is it the nursery who don't agree? How on earth are children expected to know right from wrong if adults don't tell them? Sorry, not very helpful but it just sounds odd to me. I tell ds off if his behaviour is unacceptable (and will tell other peoples kids too depending on what happened etc) as long as I properly saw what happened. Mears, that's a salutary tale, will muse on that.

I think some kids are naturally more passive than others. Despite my dh being super tough and belligerent and my being no shrinking violet and we often have very lively discussions at home, our ds (21 mo.) is very non-combatative. I was talking with the childminder this morning about how he often gives up his toys and is very willing to share while the other boy (19 mo.) she looks after fulltime is always grabbing toys and hitting and hates sharing. His parents are both relatively quiet and laidback so he doesn't have violence as an example at home.
It's interesting what you say mears about bullying. My dh always tells his kids that if someone hits them first it's ok to hit them back, while my instinct is to discourage any sort of violence. I was brought up this way and never had a problem being bullied at school. But my brother did. I'm not sure that if he had been told it was ok to thump other kids, whether he would have stopped himself from being bullied.
Alley22, I think that some people are just more laid back than others. I find that I let my ds do all sorts of things that panic other mothers. One of his favorite games is "falling down" which he does from all sorts of things. I have found that he is generally pretty knowing about what his own limits are and leave him to explore on his own. If I feel that he is trying to do something that is truly dangerous I will stop him. For example, he loves climbing ladders and is very proficient at doing so on his own. I will let him climb up a ladder as high as he wants, but when he goes above 4 or 5 rungs I will get a few rungs below him to catch him in case he falls (he never has).

My little boy has always been so very careful, translated=bit of a wimp!, he doesnt like rides, slides, practically anything that moves including coaches and trains! and holds my hand (without me prompting him) at every occasion whether its coming down a slide or walking up a hill, so I suppose Im not used to some kiddies who throw themselves around a little more, and are used to it. He does go to nursery but he is the oldest child in the youngest group and spends most of his day with babies from 5 months (hes 22 months) so when he moves into the next group 2-4years perhaps he'll get used to it.. and things will change.
What I was getting at before the highchair story was the two kiddies whose parents saw there child be damn right nasty, and didnt say a word and i stand there wondering whether i should say anything at all..

SofiaAmes, a 21month old climbing ladders - wow! Iimpressed but also scared!!

www - they say they learn from each other about what is good and bad behaviour .......

mears - that is precisely my worry that ds has it drummed in to him not to hit (he went through a v. aggressive stage) which will result in him possibly being the victim just because he's being a good boy. Isn't it confusing to tell them they can hit back if they are hit first - it kind of goes against the point of the argument and i would have thought very mixed messages at a young age would leave them not knowing what to do and loosing any boundaries - not critising at all - just thinking it through ...... maybe it's something to teach them when starting big school rather than at the pre-school age.

Dd has a 'friend' who is pretty aggressive. The other day he kept treading/kicking her foot really hard so I told her brightly 'Oh, is x kicking you? Well if he does it again, kick him back.' That immediately stopped any further kicking from x and I don't think its going to make dd unduly aggressive. Mind you, his mum didn't like it.

Ooooh emilys, what toss!!!! (The nursery, not you )

My DS (2 yrs) is quite happy to hit me or his father in a fit of temper or when tired, but is a bit of a wuss with other children. He rarely starts fights, and shares toys even though possessive. I would like him to be able to defend himself and when he comes running to me after being beaten up tell him to hit the other child back. Dh is horrified at this and thinks it is stupid. As it turns out even with my encouragement he only pretends to hit them back from a safe distance.

He has a pal a couple of months older who is a hitter and biter and often has to be pulled off other kids. His mum thinks that it is due to the play fights he has with his dad and the fact that he doesn't go to nursery.

I worry about my super diplomat child who is perfectly behaved at nursery and with other kids but compensates by lashing out at me.

I cannot do time out because he will fight during his removal and the situation just escalates. Just hoping he'll grow out of it and hit bullies instead of me. I have a hard enough time of it already..