Nearly 4 and still wees in pants every day - ADVICE, HELP!

[lalisa]

i am a SAHM and started potty training my 3yr&9mo old daughter about a year ago in prep for her starting nursery. And a year from then, we are still at it. She's pretty good when we're outside, will tell me when she needs to go, but we have a real problem with when we're home, in particular in the mornings between waking up and going out (around 10ish). She simply wees or poos wherever she is standing, doesnt tell me about it, and doesnt seem remotely bothered by it. Here are things I have tried, none with much of any impact:

1)shouting angrily - only tried this for one day, didnt work and doesnt feel right anyway.
2)calmly cleaning up the mess and changing her, not making a fuss and not giving her any particular attention - i've done this for the longest time. also had no effect
3) giving rewards - raisins or stickers for each visit or for staying dry all morning. works for a while, but once its working and i think we've got it cracked and gradually take away the reward, she reverts back
4) putting her on the toilet at certain regular times (i.e. before breakfast, after breakfast, 1 hour after breakfast, etc) Is most effective at preventing accidents, but she hates it- screams NO that she doesnt want/need to go (but then wees on toilet anyway).
5) saying that if she doesn't behave like a big girl, she won't be able to do big girl things like ride her bike, etc. she then promises to do all her wees on the toilet, and then continues not to do so. taking away privleges generally has had no effect.
6)explaining the rational consequences of her behavior: wee on floor, floor gets ruined, no one will want to buy our flat with a ruined floor, so we wont be able to move to a house with a garden (something we are all very much looking forward to).

She is otherwise a very happy well behaved little girl and we have no other problems, but this is a real sticking point. Today in desperation while cleaning up another wee i said that maybe I should find her a new mummy since I was doing such a bad job and she cheerfully suggested that she'd like to have Andre's mummy since she was so nice.

Do we need medical or psychological help? Or should i just accept that its normal to be cleaning up after her indefinitely? Any ideas anyone?

Thanks!

We have just trained dd1 which has taken over a year, i think some just take longger than others. I was'nt fully toilet trained when i started school , dd1 went on the big toilet for the first time a few weeks ago after telling her she could'nt go to school(playschool) if she did'nt use the toilet.

It sounds like you are doing a good job and trying evrything you can, maybe stick to a reward chart as it did have some effect but keep it going for a little longger.

You could try telling her that if she wets herself she will have to clean herself, put on clean pants, mop up floor and put wet pants in the laundry. Eventually going to the loo will seem much less hassle! But do continue rewarding dry pants/ successful toileting.

Agree with Kittensocks, my son did this for a while, he was trained then he found it a fun way to get my attention as I had a new baby. Was not fun for me, I made him take off his sodden jeans (which was a huge struggle) take his pants and jeans to the utility and put them into the washing machine. Get baby wipes and clean himself, then get new pants and trousers out of his wardrobe.

If he went through several pairs then he would run out of trousers so would not be allowed out to play and would have to sit in cold plastic booster seat at the table at meal times and if he dropped food it would go onto his legs which he hated (it wasn't hot food, I'm not evil)

Sometimes it is just pure attention seeking behaviour, even the mundane you changing her is you being with her.

We also let him choose new pants as an incentive not to wet Thomas or Bob

Could it be a reaction to her drinking cows milk ?

I don't know about potty training but we do EC our dauighter. i.e. She uses the potty/toilet. I found a link between me drinking cows milk and my breastfed daughter doing loads of wees and not signalling before doing them. I starting eating dry cereal in the morning and she has stopped the excess weeing.

Might not be relevent for your daughter but if she is showing no sign of noticing her misses, it does sound like a food allergy reaction.

HTH

We have had similar issues with ds. We were referred to a paediatrician when he was 4.8 because I decided that something needed to be done. It turns out he has a problem with his bladder and it is not just him being bloody minded, lazy and stubborn!

We have found that a combination of medication, a progress/star chart (partly used as a diary for the dr) and making him clean up his own messes is now finally working. (btw when he had a recent phase of doing poos in his pants I made him wash them out himself. First time I helped him but made him do it himself. He only did it once more after that )

hth

i think she will just grow out of it in time..........dd went through this stage and it just seemed she was too interested in what she was doing that she couldnt be bothered to go to the toilet.all will be fine