Advice on dealing with school

[ray5001]

Hello. I'm a dad. I have a 10 year old son. I'm divorced from his mum.
Son is diagnosed with mild ASD. He has no major problems.
The school commissioned a report, they said this was at mum's request and they had no problems with son.
In the report, the social worker wrote:
"(son) lacks empathy for others".
I asked them to remove that line, and in response they changed it to:
" mum, the school, and the social worker believe son can lack empathy for others"

Can the school do this? Surely if they include a statement like that in a report they would have to justify it?

It's a very long story, but essentially son has had a tough life because (you guessed it) mum lacks empathy, which has led to lots of involvement with social services, a revolving door of partners, son having to move school because mum was 'fleeing' domestic violence (not from me), etc, which is a fairly obvious explanation for why he may occasionally not be particularly happy. But regardless of the ins and outs of things, can the school make a statement like that about a child? If they're going to start writing what people believe, wouldn't they then also have to include what I believe? (and so on, it could be neverending).

I'm guessing the school can only put down what they observe? They will see him a large portion of his day and week so, as hard as it might be to hear, maybe he is lacking in empathy. Not surprising he'd have a few challenges if he has had turmoil in his life.
Is there a particular reason you want it removed from the report? I'm sorry I can't advise how to get it changed but hopefully someone else will come along who can.

Hello, thanks for your reply.

I'd like it removed from the report simply because it doesn't seem like a particularly nice way to brand a child. He's told by his mum that he doesn't have empathy, and it's not helpful that officials back her up.

My view is that all 10 year olds lack empathy, but I can't see why you'd write something like that about a child, it's hardly constructive and isn't going to help him in any way, but could potentially cause him problems down the line if the description sticks and follows him to secondary school.

Most 10 year olds do have empathy. If he has asd then that will be why he has problems empathising with others. You say that his mother lacks empathy, well she could have asd too.

There are various tests that schools/social workers can do to see how empathetic a child is, I would assume that the report would be referring to this.

If the school have raised concerns, please listen. It's in the best interests for your child and will help them get the support they need in school.

The school specifically say they have no concerns. It's all just about supporting mum at the expense of son. They haven't done any tests to see how empathetic he is.

Reports written by professionals aren’t about being “nice” but rather truthful. They need to give an accurate picture so the best support can be given or decisions made.
By 10 children should absolutely be able to show empathy.
You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder about ex rather than thinking how best to help and support your child. Children with ASD may benefit from particular approaches and techniques and it’s useful for school to know this. It’s not about causing him of something.

Who has written the report? A social worker or an Ed psych. What kind of report? What is the aim of the report?

You say your son has mild asd which would account for the empathy observation. It's not about being negative about your son's character but an observation that has been made. It sounds based on the information given here that you may not be focussed on the right things.

I'd like it removed from the report simply because it doesn't seem like a particularly nice way to brand a child.

It's not. It's a neutral assessment of his behaviour to inform planning for his needs. It's common that a child with ASD would struggle with empathy- teaching that skill is often a key target.

The evidence is that his teachers think this- they will be most able to judge.

My view is that all 10 year olds lack empathy

You are mistaken. Like most social skills, kids vary wildly. Concentrate on teaching him empathy and supporting the school. Don't waste your energy tilting at windmills, you have enough on your plate.

Maybe try and focus on how to help your son show more empathy and not model his mother's behaviour (if that is where it is coming from). Easier said than done depending on how much contact you have with him. Could be as simple as pointing out good examples in everyday life or in books he's reading. Others might have better ideas!

The school commissioned a report, they said this was at mum's request and they had no problems with son.In the report, the social worker wrote:"(son) lacks empathy for others".I asked them to remove that line, and in response they changed it to:" mum, the school, and the social worker believe son can lack empathy for others"

I’m very confused. The school has commissioned a report? Who have they commissioned to write it? Why?

Or do you mean mum has asked the school to write a report?

If so...Where does the social worker come into it? Does your son have a social worker? Why is the social worker writing in the report that mum has asked the school to write?!

I also don't understand the purpose of the report. Never heard of such a report before.

The school have a duty to report what they observe. I don't understand why you would object to this. They need to list everything in order to access additional support for him

The school got a social worker to write a report about child because the mum asked them to?

That didn't happen. Something happened; but not that. Where did you get a copy of the report from?

Also your child isn't diagnosed with 'mild' ASD. They either have an autism diagnosis or they don't. I'm sorry but that one infuriates me.

I cared for a child with autism. He lacks empathy. It's a fact, not an insult. I'm not sure why you would ask them to alter something they have observed. They are only trying to help by getting him assessed.

I think you're concentrating your energy on the wrong thing here. Fighting with your ex and the school will not provide support for your son. You need to find a way to all work together, it sounds like he desperately needs stability and positive role models who aren't bickering.

My ds is now 16 and was diagnosed with HFA aged 8. He really struggles with empathy.

We've recently had a death in the family, my dgm who i cared for until the point she was admitted to hospital. When she passed away I cried and he looked at me blankly and asked me what was wrong.

Even at the funeral he struggled with it.

Asd doctor told us to "play on his strengths and work on his weaknesses" which I always try to live by.

I think your issue is not with the school, if your dc's mum is such a train wreck why aren't you seeking majority custody? If his mum is dealing with asd day in day out she probably knows far better than you that he lacks empathy, a common trait

my dd1 lacks empathy, she has to learn what's socially acceptable and expected like she learnt her colours, so she'll run up to a friend and say "are you ok!?" but not because she's really bothered but because that's what I've taught her.

dd2 on the other hand, even from under 2 if I said ow you've hurt me (head butt me for e.g.) shed say "mummy sad sorry mummy" off the bat.

they could probably evidence it if need be. do you disagree that it's true?

Don't confuse 'empathy' with 'kindness'. Empathy is a nuanced response to another person's suffering. It's identifying with them, even though you don't share the same feelings. For children with ASD, it can be literally impossible to 'place themselves in someone else's shoes' and be empathetic.

An example might help: DD1 (who has SN) was crying that she would miss maths because of sports day and her maths teacher is leaving, last night.

This morning, DD1 was trying to be brave and said 'oh well, one good thing about sports day is no lessons, I guess.' DD2 (who has ASD) immediately replied 'But you will be missing a double maths lesson with Mr X...' DD1 immediately burst in to tears, while DD2 was looking perplexed.

DD2 was just stating a fact. She hadn't appreciated that it would upset DD1, because she can't empathise with her feelings about missing maths.

That doesn't mean that she can't be kind. It's just that her kindness is a skill that was learned.

This morning,

Thank you for all comments, which have helped me see where the school is coming from.

Autism doesn't mean lack of empathy, and struggling to show your feelings doesn't mean you don't have them.

Possibly we just read different meaning into the word empathy. I do know I'm not the only one who feels this way, simply through a google search which brings up the same concerns I have.

"Autism doesn't mean lack of empathy"

Except that it kind of does. Empathy is the ability to understand and share the emotions of another person. Part of autism features the inability to see things from other people's point of view. It doesn't mean people with ASD can't sympathise, but empathy is a lot harder for them.

What Lougle says.
Lack of empathy does not = Bastard.
It means lack of seeing other people's perspective and understanding their emotions.
By identifying this, the school (& you) can help your son develop this skill that doesn't come as naturally to him as it might to others.
You can't help him if the problem isn't recognised.

FWIW, I've worked with a load of ASD men who were extremely kind & generous and very upset if they thought they upset someone else... they were intelligent men who had learnt that they had to work extra hard at those skills and to avoid upsetting others. Maybe they had to learn the hard way and your son will get early help to avoid their difficult learning experiences.

I would still be less concerned about this empathy thing and more concerned about social workers coming to make a report on your child, because school said their mum wanted it.

Find out what and what actually happened.

The school should be communicating with you as well (I'm assuming there's no court order saying they shouldn't). I suggest contacting them via email to confirm the class teacher, Senco and admin team all have your correct email and other contact details so you can be copied in, and ask to speak to the teacher or Senco so you all know what reports have been commissioned and done and why, so that you can all work together to support ds with his needs.

I wouldn't get hung up on the empathy sentence - it's generally the triggers for empathy and the response to it that are different in children with ASD rather than a lack of it (my ds has so much empathy it overwhelms him), but reports often say 'lacks emoathy' as shorthand for 'doesn't show empathy in expected ways in the situations expected by neurotypicals' - the neurotypicals are if anything worse at empathising with autistic people, but that's a whole separate rant.

It's possibly an Ed psych report made as a step to getting an Individual Education Plan (simply a list of recommendations for the school to follow to teach him more effectively), and perhaps a EHCP in due course - again, to ensure ds gets the type of support he needs in school.