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Parenting

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Original poster

Child residency issues and threat of court action

21 replies

Namechange3003 · 05/07/2019 10:36

Soo..
Long long story, for the last year my husbands 3 children have been living with us due to sexual abuse against them by their sibling at their mothers home.
In that year their mother has had very little contact with them and very little input into their general care. We have did everything for them and provided for them fully.
Will also add that she ignored many many attempts made by us to organise contact with her children. However just before christmas she went to a solicitor to ask for us to return the children, we refused as they are happy and settled with us and after speaking to them they told us they didnt want to return home to her. But we arranged contact once a month for the weekend and once a week for a few hours. This has been in place for the last 3/4 months, however received a letter yesterday stating she wants us to return the girls to her, we have 14 days to do so or it will be taken to court at our expense, she is on benefits so gets legal aid, we both work full time so get none and cant afford a solicitor, so have been representing ourselves, however obviously now with the threat of court we have no idea where we stand or what we should do.
Any advice would be much appreciated
P.s. we are in Scotland if that makes any difference

OP posts:

glenthebattleostrich · 05/07/2019 10:38

Can't help but perhaps ask for this to be moved to the legal section on here. There are some knowledgeable folk there.

Original poster

Namechange3003 · 05/07/2019 10:39

Ah thanks. How do I ask for it to be moved?

OP posts:

purpleboy · 05/07/2019 11:26

I don't have any legal advice to give but my friend is going through a similar situation at the moment. Her 8yo DS went to his dads, whilst there his stepbrother 10 sexually assaulted him on 2 separate occasions. (Hands inserted somewhere they should be). She had to report to school as ds is very upset by it all. The school have now got child's services involved and she has been told she must not let her DS got back to his fathers until this is all resolved.
It's still very early days for her, but relating it to your situation, I can't imagine the courts wanting the dc to go back to their mothers without proper safeguarding. It sounds like she hasn't really bothered with them, which puts you in a better position, the children would rather stay with you, again to your advantage, they are also settled and happy. I would hope that any judge sitting on this would see it is not in the best interests of the children to be returned to their mother.

Get all you paperwork in order, all the texts or emails that went ignored by her. I believe you can get a free 1/2 hour advice session with some solicitors so that would be worth looking into.
Don't hand the children over until there is a court order. As long as he has PR then he has as much right to them as their mum. She is trying to use bullying tactics but you are under no obligation the give them back (especially if they don't want to go back) until ordered to do so by a court.
What ages are the children?

smallereveryday · 05/07/2019 12:57

First of all it won't be 'at your expense '. !! Neither will she get legal aid unless she has been a victim of domestic abuse and has proof of this (ie police reports) .

There is a cost to making an application to the family court for contact. That cost is £215. This can be reduced or waived for those on low incomes/benefits. It is the court fee not for legal representation.

However - even if she does employ a solicitor (and manages to get legal aid) that cost is not transferred to you if the court found in her favour. This is the family court . You pay your own costs or none - if as is most common these days - you self represent.

The threat of 'your expense' is just that, it's meant to scare you into agreeing to what she wants without going to court.!

However if I were you I would say 'bring it on'. It would be very unusual for a judge to move residency from a parent , where the children are happy and settled. How old are they ? There wishes can be made known to the court and if there are doubts then the judge will appoint a CAFCASS officer to visit the children and write a report of their wishes based on her assessment.

You have little to lose by going to court except perhaps a slight increase in contact IF the judge believes it to be in the children's best interests. Your partner just attends and tells the Judge why they should stay with him . No lawyer required.

smallereveryday · 05/07/2019 12:59

Btw the court fee is only paid by the person making the application. So not your cost.

Apolloanddaphne · 05/07/2019 13:02

No Cafcass in Scotland. It is a very different legal system.

Where does the sibling who abused the children living now? Is she still able to protect them. If she goes to court it is likely a safeguarder will be appointed to gather the views of the children (although I am not up on civil cases, I only know about SS cases). Are SS still involved? Maybe give then a call for advice?

Oliversmumsarmy · 05/07/2019 13:07

I don't know if it covers legal bills for this type of thing but have you got legal cover with your house insurance.

I know it covers employment disputes not sure if it would cover family issues

Whathappenedtooursummer · 05/07/2019 13:10

You do know just because a solicitor sent the letter it doesn't mean it carries any weight?
My exh had a letter sent to me requesting I take down my newly fitted blinds as they prevented him seeing into my home!!
That was the idea you fuckwit...
I ignored and didn't go to jail!
Ignore tbh. Keep detailed timeline of events from start to today incase of future harrasement.
She is clearly still unhinged if she expects you to hand over dc...

smallereveryday · 05/07/2019 13:18

Apologies- didn't see you were in Scotland. As pp said no CAFCASS. But similar court appointed guardian to gather thoughts and wishes if Judge thinks necessary. Otherwise much the same. You won't pay her legal fees. You can self represent so no actual cost to you except loss of a days work to attend court.

smallereveryday · 05/07/2019 13:19

A solicitor doesn't make the law. Only a court can do that. Don't be bullied.

Original poster

Namechange3003 · 05/07/2019 20:10

Thanks to u all for your replies just had a minute to get caught up now..
They are 7,8 and 11..
There is so much more to this story she's a very twisted woman and doesn't deserve those children so them going back there would be the worst thing possible, we have tried all solicitors here and none offer free consultation, their all £210+ an hour so In the meantime should we continue allowing contact? My worry is she keeps the children and just doesn't give us them back but also don't want to refuse contact if it will go against us in court

OP posts:

Original poster

Namechange3003 · 05/07/2019 20:12

An no don't have legal cover..
social services are involved at her end, reports state she "needs work on her parenting skills " and they are currently helping her with that, we have never had any social work involvement though

OP posts:

Firefliess · 05/07/2019 20:30

Is there a court order saying that they live with you? If so, she can't just not return them after contact, or rather if she does the police could swiftly return them home for you.

smallereveryday · 05/07/2019 20:39

Has she actually made an application to the court yet ? Do you have a date? Did SS place them with you ?

I really wouldn't worry about court. I can't see any judge changing residency for settled children . In fact court will be the best thing as they will make an order that puts it clearly that you have residency and she has contact. (Although you may already have an order ?)

I would however expect her to get a little more contact than every month. I expect that could go to Eow. As is the norm for Non resident parent.

Don't refuse contact. That never looks good. If she does try and keep them (can only do that if there is no order in place otherwise you just get the police involved) Then you are going to court anyway so the judge will sort it out. This would be a very very stupid move on her part.

11 yr olds wishes will carry some weighty sway with the court.

Original poster

Namechange3003 · 05/07/2019 20:47

No, no application to the court yet, we have 14 days to return the children to her or they will begin court proceedings. No social services didn't actually place them with us, they was intending leaving them with her at home, even drew up a plan that she was supposed to follow to stop anything further happening my husband obviously wasn't comfortable with them still being home with her so refused to let them go back..

We also have no court order to say we have residency..

Do you think contact would increase even if the kids don't want to go any more than that? struggle to get them to go once a month never mind more regular, and don't want to have to force them

OP posts:

Redred2429 · 05/07/2019 20:55

If there is social services involment could you contact them and see if they could offer support?

JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 05/07/2019 21:01

Is the abuser still at her house? Are the children having to spend the weekend with their abuser?

Mummyshark2018 · 05/07/2019 21:01

Sorry don't know how the legal system works in Scotland but my first thoughts would be speak to the safeguarding lead in kids school and ask them to support a social care referral.

slkk · 05/07/2019 21:21

I would apply for a child arrangements order

smallereveryday · 05/07/2019 22:29

In that case OP I would do absolutely nothing. With her background her lawyer must have explained she has little chance of getting them back in residence. She may well ignore him and go for it anyway but that would be good for you.
She has to take your dp to court.
She has to pay the fee and fill in the forms .
Your dp simply turns up, tells the judge the kids are unhappy enough going once a month let alone more.
Judge asks Scottish equivalent of CAFCASS to come and have a chat with the kids and report back to him. They will say what you have said.
Judge awards you residency and her some form of contact.
Job done !. Do nothing. Personally I think her lawyer has said she will have no hope at court if anything more than current contact and this is a strategy to get you to agree to something because she thinks you are afraid of court. Don't be ! Call her bluff...

Original poster

Namechange3003 · 06/07/2019 00:16

No the abuser has been taken into care, no longer at her house. Certainly wouldn't allow them to go even for contact if that was the case.. but despite abuser not being there they still don't want to be there.

Thanks smaller, definitely helped put my mind at ease, I haven't went into detail with the children about what their mother is trying to do but have simply told them that if anyone asks them about where they want to live then they must tell the truth, was very careful about how i worded it too, so we can't be accused of putting words in their mouths..

Those kids- along with my own 3, are my absolute world and breaks my heart to think of them back home with her, everyone who knew them then and now have commented on the positive change in them including their school teachers. They are happy and have a safe, structured home with routine instead of the absolute chaos they lived with while they was with her. So really hope things pan out the way we are hoping for

OP posts:

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