what are your 3 year olds like? Am I doing something wrong here?

[lookingouttosea]

I've read all the parenting books and I try my best (we both do) to be empathetic, check if she's tired/hungry/overwhelmed (its often a combination of these), treat her with respect...etc...
But AGGGHHHH.
First its the not sleeping, ever, for longer than 8/9 hours. I've posted before. I really have tried everything. It means zero time for ourselves in the evening, which is hard, but we've had to try to accept it. Just as an example, we managed to get her to sleep earlier last night and she was bathed, in bed and asleep by 8pm which is a huge achievement. She woke up after an hour and refused to go back to sleep until 11pm. Was wide awake. Wouldn't go back to bed. Screaming until I took her up.
Second is the frequent waking. Screaming in her sleep, wailing. I've tried even bringing her into my room on a bed on the floor but it doesn't really help. Plus she wakes the baby.
Third is the constant whining. All sentences begin with "can I?" or "I want" followed by a refusal by me (if it can't be facilitated, such as ice cream for breakfast) and a tantrum. We've tried saying "I don't understand you in that voice could you speak normally" but it doesn't work.
Fourth is the defiance at every possible turn.
Now...she's a very bright girl, kind to her sister, has a big heart. I want to treat her like she's someone who people want to be around. I don't want her to pick up on her parents trying at every turn to "escape" from her but I fear that's what it's turning into.
We do so many fun activities with her, in fact most of our days revolve around her needing play time, outdoors time, interaction and me giving her 110% attention periodically because of the new baby (6 months old). But nothing is really enjoyable because it descends into nagging for snacks, treats or screens...and then a tantrum when she doesn't get what she wants.
I find her exhausting.
Is this just normal 3 year olds? She does have asthma and food allergies so maybe that doesn't help.
I spoke to a friend earlier and she was glowing that its "such a great age isn't it?" Am I missing something

DS goes to bed at 9, babbles to himself for an hour and is usually up by 7am so i feel your pain!

But aside from that, I can't relate, sorry :( I think we've been really lucky with him though

I'm sure you've tried sleep training yes? It's fucking hideous when it's looking after a 3 year old on less sleep..........

My three year old is like that at the minute. The constant wanting, moaning. The nights with constant wake ups when she was sleeping through previously.

She's three and and half. But I see massive amounts of learning and her personality is changing (for the better) and it's now becoming more good days than bad so I think we are starting to get through this stage. Plus she also wants to go nappyless at night (she's not quite there yet)

I'm not an expert, I only have one 3 year old myself, but I don't think you're doing anything wrong - 3 year olds can be incredibly challenging!

My daughter will whinge about absolutely anything - 'you're driving the wrong way mummyyyyyyyyy' (I'm bloody not)
'Friend pushed me at nursery (WEEKS ago) and I'm saaaaaaaaaaaad'
Drives me bonkers. I seem to alternate between having Buddhist monk levels of calm and patience and not being able to hack it at all and wanting to run away.

You say 'we' so I assume you have a partner - can you carve out some time alone on a regular basis to reset your mind and recharge your parenting batteries? Dress it up as special super exciting time with daddy?!

My ds is exactly the same. Whines about everything. Heaven forbid his biscuit has a crack - end of the world today. He also doesn't go to bed until 11ish? I've tried absolutely everything, we're trialing a gro clock tonight. All I do now is try and be nice to him, not listen to my friends with seemingly perfect three year olds and tell myself it is just a phase and he must be learning new skills. Good luck OP, you are most definitely not alone.

My four year old was horrible a lot of the time. Yelling, screaming, not letting me speak to her dad or sister, kicking, biting, everything! I was stressed and upset and although people sympathised nobody else's children seemed to behave like that. I took advice, read books, tried different things but nothing really helped, it all just distracted me I suppose while she was growing up and developing. Now she's four and a half and the sweetest girl you could imagine. Now I'm really sad for all the hard work I put in getting through the hardest years and in a few weeks she'll be taken away from me (full time school) and I'll miss out on her just now she's started to be a delight to be around. It took until maybe four and a quarter to get to this stage but we're here now. I just wanted to let you know you're not alone, keep up the excellent work that you've described, and put one foot in front of the other each day until the behaviour improves. I'm certain it will.

Does she have a nap in the daytime? My three year old doesn’t and is absolutely cream crackered by 7pm, especially if he has been to nursery.

You say she wouldn’t go to bed - have you tried the Supernanny technique of repeatedly putting her back in? Don’t cave and bring her downstairs or in a different bed. Hopefully eventually she will get bored and fall asleep if she realises there’s no chance of doing something more fun.

I feel for you as the tantruming and arguing during the day leave me needing a sleep by 7 too - that part is all very familar! And I don’t even have a small baby to look after on top of that. Not enjoying this age!

I would say you’re probably indulging her, every time she whines, cries, creates to get her own way do you give in?

If my 3 year old gets up in night, we check she’s ok with minimal fuss and it’s bsck to bed.

My 3 year old doesn’t want to eat her tea but a plateful of biscuits I ignore any tantrums. All my children know if they whine because the toast was cut into triangles and not squares they either eat it or go without. They never play up for me. For daddy it’s a whole other story.

I would say also she is still only 3 and is adjusting to sharing you with another sibling, so she will need maximum emotional support, but good firm boundaries too.

Lighter nights don’t help either, but think you do need to sleep train her.

Let her make some decisions for herself to help defiance.

My daughter was nearly 3 when her brother was born. I have often been known to say that she had used up all my patience already at that point! Some of it is personality, some frustration when their aims and ideas don't match what they can actually do, but yes it does get better (and worse, and better, and ... GCSEs nearly finished here ...)

Oh I feel your pain! This sounds like DS at (almost) 3. He would literally scream when he (frequently) woke at night. We had been giving him milk in a bottle to try to placate him during the night. When he turned 3 we used that to get him off the bottle, using the bottle fairy idea. It worked! He started to sleep through and became easier during the day too. The other thing was a change in his nursery, he gets on much better at his new one so not having that stress is so much better for all of us. You will get there, it's a bloody hard slog though. Please be nice to yourself, you sound like you are an awesome parent.

Fortunately my DS (just turned 4) is a usually a good sleeper, the whining though. Dear god it drives me insane. And the defiance. Everything is a fight. Or a question. I definitely have learnt to pick my battles, but some things I’m strict and just shut down right away. They do learn eventually but you have to be consistent and it wears yo shown having the exact same argument every single day

Also we have actually left places before because of his behavior. It’s annoying if you didn’t want to leave then, but it shows that I mean what I say. He does know I’ll follow through, slough I usually give a few warnings. The only punishments that really work for us are immediate. So time out works. And also removing whatever it is ASAP. So removing the tablet right then yes, but not giving it due to prior bad behavior doesn’t seem to work well for us as he just works himself up even more over it.

Good luck! Im hoping 4 is better

You're not alone!!! My DS is 3.5 and like pp we are now having lots of good days (and also still some horrible days!) but oh the defiance, the whining. He's been great today but this morning before breakfast, everything was "I DON'T..." followed by some whinge or another. I know he's like this at playgroup as well as I've had a few moans from the manager that he refuses to do this or that.

Like you and a few other pps there's also a new baby around; DS2 is 3.5 months. DS1's behaviour started to go downhill when I got pregnant and was very sick, but it certainly kicked up a notch around the time he turned 3.

I'm trying to focus on how much he is changing for the better though, it does help. He's been dry in the day for almost a year and overnight for over 6 months. He can dress himself, do his own shoes. Recognise numbers, the letters in his name. It must be mentally exhausting developing so quickly!

The one saving grace is he still sleeps very well, we have the odd wake up/nightmare but not every week. He still needs a nap some days. I would definitely do some form of sleep training, returning her to her room. Or if all else fails just let her sleep with you, as long as she's quiet and lets you sleep.

I don't have one, but have worked with mostly 3 year olds a long time. They are definitely different at home but some ideas that may help a little-

Choices are a big deal at three. Children don't get much of a say in what happens to them often, but if you can include her in decisions you might (only might though) get less whining. This might be deciding what park to visit, or letting her choose and help prepare lunch or snacks. Also when you want her to do something specific make out like it's her decision e.g. "do you want to wear the green t-shirt or the yellow one?" Child feels in control - parent gets the result they need which is a child with some clothes on.

When there are non negotiable things/events, give plenty of warning about what's coming up. "After breakfast, we can have ten minutes play and then we need to take baby to the shop and buy some nappies and if you walk nicely around the shop, you can pay the shop keeper."

When it comes to treats and things - I thought my cousin started pocket money with her boy really early but it actually seems to work well - he is to save half of it, and can spend half. When it's his own money he has to spend, things seem much less appealing! He knows when it's gone, it's gone. There were some strops to begin with but he got it surprisingly quickly!