DD is 8 months old and still cries all the time

[MeadowHay]

Not sure what I want with this thread...reassurance that it will get better at some unknown point in the future? Sympathy? Recognition? I don't know. I am so miserable. Today has been particularly bad. Apart from 30 minutes Water Babies class this morning she has cried the whole entire day and had two 30 minute naps. She has spent the whole day with her dummy in her mouth as it's the only thing that makes the crying like intermittent crying and whinging rather than full-on hysterical screaming (I keep trying to take it off her but she just starts screaming). No idea what is wrong with her, as usual. She does this all the time. Nothing is making her stop whinging and crying other than dummy to some extent and Teletubbies worked for 3 episodes then stopped. We have tried toys, walks in the pram, cuddles, walking about with her, Calpol, Dentinox, music, books...sometimes something works for 5 minutes and then she goes back to crying and whinging again. She is like this all the time as well, it's not a one off. After 8 months of it I am so broken. Everyone said when she was like 8 weeks old she would outgrow it. We are months and months in and she's no better. She is starting nursery on Monday and im worried she will just be left to cry all the time on her own as obviously one nursery nurse has 3 kids to look after. And she cries anyway so lots of the time I don't know why I bother, she just ignores me and cries. She has seen GP umpteen times, our HV is just completely AWOL and not helping us at all, GP referred her to paed but we can't get an appt until June, just before her 1st birthday. At least I will be back at work in a couple of weeks to get some peace but I am just so sad anyway that she is so unhappy all the time and spends all day with a bloody dummy in her mouth staring aimlessly at the telly rather than doing anything enriching or fun but nothing else makes her stop crying, what am I supposed to do?

That sounds incredibly difficult!

What's her eating and sleeping like?

And have you tried altering her diet? Any chance it's a dairy/lactose/gluten issue?

I have an 8 month old too so I really feel for you.

Could she be teething? I know you said she's always been like this but you never know! I've got an amber bracelet for my DD it's worn on the ankle and it's really helped with teething - worth a go!

Could also try a comforter that smells like you.

Does she cry at groups too?

Eating and sleeping both ok except for daytime naps are generally few and short and a huge battle to get her to sleep anywhere other than the pram. The days are all a bit different from each other but a fairly standard example:
7am milk - until about two weeks ago she was drinking 8 scoops of formula but suddenly has cut it down to between 4 and 6. She's still on Cow and Gate 1.
9am solid breakfast - usually around 100g baby porridge (incl. the water or milk content)
12pm bottle - as above, followed by solid lunch which is whatever bits I'm eating but until about the last two weeks she wasn't actually taking any of that in and still only taking a tiny bit I think + pouch of fruit or vegetable or yoghurt which is around 70g
4pm bottle - as above
6pm solid dinner - whatever we are eating to self-feed + savoury pouch which she will either eat around 70g if she likes it or only a few spoons if she doesn't
7pm bottle - usually 7 scoops of formula but the second half of the bottle is often dream fed once she's asleep.

She's usually in bed asleep around 8pm but it can vary from 7.30pm-8.15pm ish or later if it's a bad night.

A typical day for naps will be 3 X 30 minute naps, one in the morning, one early afternoon, one late afternoon or early evening. This varies though and sometimes we get a good day of a few longer naps especially if we're doing lots of walking with the pushchair. I think the last time she had a nap longer than 30 minutes was probably... Monday? Think she might have had one hour long nap then after lunch. So she does sometimes but not often. She is permanently exhausted and spends lots of each day rubbing her eyes and yawning but won't sleep.

Not tried changing diet as in the early months we were too scared to change her milk in case it made things worse and neither the HV nor GP recommended it. we don't think it's CMPA or anything because it didn't get worse once I swapped from BF to FF which you would have expected it to do if it had been something related to dairy. Also until the last month or so she hasn't really cried much once she's been put to bed (although woke very frequently for dummy) so would assume food related allergy issues would affect her all the time including at night after evening meal/bedtime bottle. I did briefly keep a food diary once we started weaning her but then stopped as could see no patterns and was just constantly writing 'particularly unsettled today' for every day lol. She struggles to pass her poos although she does at least one most days but cries and strains a lot before it, and she also seems to struggle with wind still.

Also GP agrees that doesn't think it's allergy or food related.

Have tried comforters but she either ignores things or plays with them which distracts her from trying to sleep. But when she gets in a proper crying phase she just ignores everything like nothing will work as a comforter even though she is starting to show preferences for a few of her toys. Only the dummy clearly helps comfort her.

She is sometimes like that at groups, generally not as bad though. That's another reason why we doubt it's a medical problem as generally speaking she is worst at home and not as bad when out and about and distracted. But still is sometimes bad and often I won't bother taking her if she hasn't had a nap for ages before it as when she gets tired she just cries and rubs her eyes all the time so there's no point taking her if she's just going to cry all the time. I've never seen a baby at any of the many groups I go to that has cried like her. And many people have commented on her crying.

There's a baby at the group I go to that cries a lot and doesn't sleep at all but she's keeps coming to the groups and he is getting better, he's 10 months though.

Sounds like you're doing everything right. The only thing I can suggest to help with her sleep is to put her down for a nap at a set time every day and leave her in her cot for an hour at least, try control crying if you're brave enough - it's worked for a friend and her baby now sleeps and naps like a dream! I think as with most babies routine is key here, hope it gets better soon xx

I would second having a really tight routine and seeing if that helps. I also think it would be worth getting on top of the naps if you can. Controlled crying can seem harsh, but if a couple of hours of crying makes her happier and stops endless days of low level crying it's worth it. I would really work on the after lunch sleep, aim to get that up to 1.5 - 2 hours and drop the last one so she's reliably tired at 7pm.

I'd try a snack between 9am-12pm and then move the bottle to 3pm to even out gaps in the food.

I'd try prunes to help her poo more easily.

Does she like water? You say she stopped crying for water babies. Take her swimming everyday if so. Also, baths don't have to be only for bedtime, you can put her in for a nice afternoon activity.

Can she crawl yet? Some babies really cheer up once they can move about.

Some babies just are miserable. It's really, really tough. Take a bit of the pressure off yourself to try and make her happy. Just do what you want to do and bring her along. If she whines no matter what it won't make any difference! I would also, and this may seem terrible, put some headphones in and listen to a podcast or some music. As long as you're looking at her (so you know she's ok) you don't have to listen to the noise all day, every day. Give your brain a break!

All children have a difficult phase perhaps she's getting hers out of the way now and will be a delightful toddler, child and teen!!

Any chance she has silent reflux? That is very painful. 2 of mine had it and were on either Zantac or loses as well as baby gaviscon in bottles.

'Losec'

Is she crawling yet?
My DS was a misery until he crawled. He pretty much cheered up over night once he started.

I think you have nothing to lose by temporarily cutting out dairy, and seeing what happens. She could have CMPI with constipation and silent reflux.

I would make sure her calcium needs are covered, and give it a period of three weeks and see what happens. Cut out soya too, as the two are often related. If there is not improvement you haven't lost much other than a bit of extra faff with meals. Something is making her continually unhappy and June is a long time to wait to see somebody.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Both my boys were whingy babies and they thoroughly enjoy being toddlers so much more. I hated everyone with the contented babies. Hated them. Hated people saying I would miss the baby months. I don’t. I was so upset and stressed all the time. All I can say is I hope you are at the end of this, and it does not mean she will be unhappy as a toddler. Xx

I'm not totally against CC in principle, but I just don't think it would work for DD. If I leave her alone in a room crying, she goes absolutely ballistic straight away. I mean seriously awful. I don't know how to describe it as I'm not sure all babies even get that bad, for example I know a lot of people have said to me how bad their babies cried at vaccinations, DD's worst crying is waaaay worse than how she cried at vaccinations. I sometimes leave her to cry for a few minutes if I absolutely have to e.g. to go to the toilet, or if I'm in the middle of a shower, or if I've put her in the pram and I'm running about getting changed or packing a bag and she is hysterical. A few other times I've left her to cry for about 15 mins max if it's a really bad day and she's been crying for hours already and I'm crying and really cannot cope, I will put her down and go to the opposite end of the house and have a cry and try to calm down and when I come back she is crying so much she can barely breathe and coughing etc, it's really sad .

My son was like this, and it broke me. I had the most hideous PND and hearing the screaming/crying/whinging all day contributed massively. It's horrendous and I really feel for you.
So many people said to me 'he can't cry all the time' or 'babies just cry'. I've met about 2 people who ever understood or could actually relate and believed me when I said he cried ALL THE TIME.

I was really worried about nursery too, but it actually seemed to help. The constant stimulation, the distractions, so much to do and focus on. He took a few weeks to settle but now loves it (he's close to 2 and has done since about a month after he started at 12 months).

For us tiredness was a small part- or at least made the crying worse and him more miserable. We did CC that luckily worked in 2 days and he started sleeping through the night (mostly). It was just what we decided we needed to do.

The main thing that helped was time, and fully appreciate that's not helpful to you, and I found it miserable when anyone said that to me. The screaming eventually turned to crying which eventually turned to whining/whinging all day and then FINALLY reduced a bit. He's still a very intense child, extremely highly strung and hard work, and I often look at other similar aged toddlers and wish he could have more of their temperament sometimes, but it's a million times easier than the dark days of that first year.

I feel for you I really do. I hope nursery has a positive effect and that time (quickly) helps things too. You seem to have kept a much calmer head than me, you seem really together, I was a total mess. Keep going, you'll get through it.

Nuff I don't get how I can do that though as she gets hysterical...also I don't see the point in trying to put her in a routine now cos she's going to be in nursery Mon-Wed now from this Monday so they will probably sort her into some sort of routine that fits them maybe? They said that most the babies end up adjusting to their routine including with naps although they can nap whenever they want but just in practice they tend to have naps around the same time, usually some of them in the morning especially the younger ones like DD, and then one after lunch, but that means being awake from like 1 or 2pm until I pick her up at 6pm and then I have to give her dinner etc so I'm dreading how tired she will be on the evenings til we put her to bed, she will probably cry loads with tiredness.

Do you mean drop a bottle, or just add in a snack and move the 4pm bottle to 3pm? I don't feed exactly on a schedule as her sleeps are so sporadic so if she's asleep I don't wake her, sometimes she has that bottle around 3.30 for example if I think she might be hungry if she's very unhappy around then or if she hasn't really eaten lunch etc. But that's the vague schedule she's on. She exhausted herself so much with crying today that she ended up sleeping on and off on DH from 4.30-6.15 which is the longest sleep she's had in a few weeks but it was really on and off, she kept waking up and crying a bit and rubbing her eyes and then going back off. And now she won't go to bed, predictably! I did tell DH he should have kept her up after she'd had an hour or so .

I do give her prunes and other similar fruits probably for one meal a day to try and encourage the poo. She poos every day really but she just seems to really struggle to pass it.

Yes she likes Water Babies and being in the bath, we recently bought her a bath seat so you're right I should put her in the bath more. It's all a bit late like as I'm going back to work in a few weeks and she's in nursery from Mon but I will still have her Fridays on my own when I go back to work.

She can't crawl (or bum shuffle or anything). She rolls about a lot and she goes onto her front from sitting to try and reach things and pushes up onto her elbows but hasn't figured out how to push up onto her knees.

And I really, really hope so about another stage being easier .

Also just seen your comment re crying- that's something we still have now. He goes from 0 to 1000000 instantly, there's rarely a middle ground. Every other toddler/baby I know does this sort of whimpering cry.

An nct friend recently said 'oh dear, x is upset' about her daughter and I had to do a double take as she was sat still whimpering. My son has never shown upset like that, he full on loud bawls all the time. And still wakes up crying to this day 😞

Do you have any help or support nearby?

Drum Don't think she has silent reflux, she doesn't really have the symptoms for it other than the crying. GP tried her on some stuff just to see anyway - Gaviscon, didn't work and constipated her really badly, then ranitidine on a low dose which didn't work, then the highest dose which also didn't do anything.

Meg Nope, she can't crawl, she isn't mobile other than rolling. I think she might learn to crawl at nursery, she doesn't get so much opportunity here as we have wooden floors with very little free floor space, and obviously we are around to help her reach/pass her things whereas at nursery she'l have to fend for herself a bit more and it's carpeted.

Tolles How can I cut out dairy without medical supervision/help, what would I do about formula?

Hen Thanks, sorry you went through this too, I really hope you're right. It was so hard and it was worse in the earlier months than now, but one of the things that got me through it is thinking she would grow out of it and I really didn't expect her to still be this miserable at this age, so now I'm catastrophising a bit and imagining she will always be bad like tantrummy and difficult etc. Apparently I was like this as a baby but I think I had undiagnosed silent reflux as I had pretty much all the symptoms, whereas DD doesn't.

Rory So sorry to hear that. I don't think I have/had PND, partly luck and partly lots of support, DH is as good a DH/dad as anyone could ever ask for and I have/have had lots of support from my parents and brother, especially DM who does understand as I was a similarly awful baby, except worse as I woke 2-hourly at night til I was 5 and DD's night time sleep is generally not that bad. Also my GP is good and very supportive. But there are times when I do get really sad and very very low and think very dark things (I have a previous history of depression too). DM also thinks nursery will help and that she might be happier there with all the stimulation, she does get bored really really easily. I do obviously want her to be happy but it does make me sad to think she might genuinely be happy away from me, in nursery, than with her own mother . How long at a time did you leave him to cry for and what kind of state was he in? I agree tiredness is also a big factor for us. Sometimes I am calm and can talk about it and rationalise things, other times I genuinely start thinking about ways I could potentially kill myself (not that I would act on those thoughts), it does get that bad sometimes . Time is making it easier she is not as bad as she used to be but progress is soooo slow.

Rory DD wakes up happy in the mornings! She smiles and is dead pleasant and talks to herself in her cotbed until she sees us. Then we pick her up and we have to hold her while we warm her bottle etc cos if you try and put her down she becomes hysterical. She usually drinks her bottle happily and is happy for half an hour or so...and then the whinging and rubing her eyes starts as for some reason she always wants to sleep within about an hour of waking up, and that then turns to crying, and then the day goes on like that...and YES about other people saying about their babies being upset or whatever and they're barely making a noise . Some of my relatives when they've seen her at her worst have been visibly shocked and been urging me to take her to the doctors etc as they've been convinced there must be something awfully wrong with her for her to cry like that and I'm like...she does this most days!

Surge Yes DH is great, and I live within a short walk from my DPs and DB, and they are all helpful especially DM as she doesn't work. When I go back to work in a few weeks she will be having DD one day a week and she knows what it's like as I was similar as a baby. She's very calm and helpful and not phased by it at all and DD loves her.

Sorry to hear you have such dark moments, but good that you're mostly ok and not suffering with PND. It's so hard.

We used a sleep consultant and decided to leave him for 1 minute - comfort - leave for 2 minutes - comfort - leave for 3 minutes. They said we could go up to 10 minutes but we were only comfortable doing 3, and we got to 3 minutes just three times.
I know we were lucky, but he was also SO over tired and plain exhausted from months of not sleeping (we rarely got more than 20 minutes in a row until 7 months) that it forced him into sleeping.

I saw someone mention crawling and actually that's something else that made a difference too- we had a late crawler which didn't help but when he got there it did improve the crying slightly. Same with walking. Didn't cure it but was a step in the right direction.

We've always considered ASD or some form of ADHD, but in reality I think we were just trying to look for an explanation to make us feel better and give it some validation really. Doctors just said to us 'high needs' which is what I think they say about any difficult baby!

When you comforted him did he stop crying/calm down at all? I wouldn't mind also if she would when I comforted but in reality 'comforting' her when she's in a cotbed makes no difference, it is no comfort to her until she's picked up (and even if she calmed a bit, if you put her back down she gets hysterical again, so PUPD also wouldn't work easily). So in reality we'd probably be looking at hours of crying (about a week ago she woke in the night and screamed on and off 1-4am, she can easily scream for hours at a time), which I don't feel comfortable with really. I have ASD and was a similarly awful baby so this is in the back of me and DH's minds however I don't want to start labelling a baby as obviously there's no way to tell at this age and don't want my thoughts to influence her behaviour development if I keep telling myself she is an aspie like me iyswim, so really trying to banish those thoughts.

Dd2 is 10 months and has been very similar. She cries a lot and doesn't really respond to kisses and cuddles for comfort. She is not affectionate at all! She is only happy if she is being carried around, or if we are out and about at a class, etc. However, once she could crawl there was a bit of an improvement, and now she is taking a few steps and again there seems to have been another slight improvement. I've come to the conclusion that she gets bored and frustrated very easily, and the more she can do for herself the happier she will be. It has been a hard year as she is so different to dd1 who was always such a smiley baby, and at times I have struggled to bond with her properly. I love her to bits but she is hard work! I read somewhere that difficult babies can be very intelligent, so I keep my motivation by telling myself I am raising a genius! Here's hoping that in 30 years time we'll get our reward and be living in luxury courtesy of our brilliant, over-achieving children!

Just a thought... have you thought about taking her to see a cranial osteopath? I have no experience of this myself, but a friends DS was like this as a baby, crying pretty much 24/7 and a terrible sleeper and the GP and HV were all suggesting silent reflex and cutting out dairy and things but nothing worked. Then out of desperation she saw a specialist children’s cranial osteopath who said he had some sort of stiffness from his traumatic birth which was probably causing constant headaches. Anyway he was slightly improved immediately after first session and after about 3 treatments he was loads better and like a different baby. He is still pretty highly strung and apt to cry at drop of hat, but also has highly cheerful times too and crying is for ‘a reason’ rather than constant unrelenting screaming or whining.
I mean it might be coincidence and maybe he was about to outgrow it anyway. But my friend swears by it.