Former breastfeeders to sleepers

[Posesinavase]

This is a post for those whose babies breastfed to sleep. (I don't know it if will be the for bottle feeders to sleep)

My dc2 is efb and will not take a dummy, tried a ton of different types just won't take.
For each and every sleep won't settle to sleep until I nurse to sleep.

My dc1 was ff and took a dummy and by 4months was able to be put down and side settled to sleep, then by 5-6months could be put down and I could step away and he'd go straight to sleep.

Anyway dc2 is now 5months and I'm concerned if this will become a problem. In comparison dc2 is a much poorer sleeper.
Ie won't go to bed and settle til late usually around 11pm but as I type this at nearly 1am he's still awake and I'm losing the battle. I'm tired and I'm sore for nursing so much.

Before 4month (sleep regression) he would settle (Eventually) and sleep at least 5hrs min since then I'm lucky to get 2hrs.

*did your baby ever feed to sleep post 4month sleep regression and sleep through?

• what age did your baby stop feeding to sleep?

*how did you break the sleep to feed?

Can't help I'm afraid but have a four month old who feeds to sleep - so interested in the responses!
She's becoming increasingly difficult to settle - can take 1-2 hours overnight and when she wakes hourly this leads to very little sleep for either of us!

I loved bfing in the early days but once it got past 6 months it became a nightmare at night time. We cracked it by breaking the connection between milk and sleep. It did take a few months but worked eventually. Start to only feed downstairs, try and give a bottle/cup of cow's milk (or alternative) before bed downstairs, then upstairs and bath, story, bed, comfort/sing song/whatever else. We bought a night light, a Ewan the sheep and a comforter rag doll thing and she was fine. Still breastfed til 14 months but stopped overnight at 10 months. She's 18 months now and has a bottle of cow's milk before bed and that's all, sleeps like a dream 7pm-8am.

I fed DS1 to sleep until he was about 10 months. Then I did the pantley pull off (move from the no cry sleep solution book. you can also google it) but I continued to feed him before sleep until he stopped breastfeeding. He didn't sleep through the night until much later but I was never at all insistent on this - perhaps he would have if I'd pushed the issue.

With DS2 who is 5 months he is much less reliant on BF to sleep. He usually feeds to sleep but some nights he will feed and then still be awake so I put him down in the bedside cot, stay beside him and look at my phone/read on kindle and he'll usually chat away to himself for a bit and fall asleep. If he starts to get upset again or it's going on for a long time I put on some white noise or a little lullaby toy he likes and that calms him enough that he drops off usually, if not I will feed him again.

It sounds to me like your problem is that your baby is difficult to get to sleep rather than that he feeds to sleep - since he doesn't seem to be falling asleep anyway?

I do recommend the no cry sleep solution book. It has recommendations and suggestions for how to change various sleep habits (if you want to) without being about controlled crying etc.

Thanks for the replies. @BertieBotts I do think he is very reliant on feed to sleep there is times he is shattered and I rock, put down and bum patt or do anything really that's not feel and he will cry and cry until I put to breast and he's sleeping with a minute.
Some nights he is a total nightmare where he'll fall asleep but not deep enough to remove my breast and put in cot so everytime I try put him down be wakes up and I restart.

Then we hit the issue of he's hungry so feeds but isn't ready for sleep but then when he is ready to sleep he doesn't want milk and gets fussy and becomes a total battle.
Some nights he will feed to sleep and wake every 2hrs occasionally gives a 3hr stretch then there is nights like last night where he gave two 1.5hr stretches the was awake for 2.5hrs the after only settled for between 20mins to 1.5hrs all night.

I'd really like to break the feed to sleep so when my dh is home I can feed downstairs and dh takes him to bed. I just having no success in doing it.

I stopped when it stopped being effective/efficient - i.e. taking longer than a 20 min standard feed, and not always being successful. My DC was just over 4 months (and post regression) at the time. Until that point it had been an absolute guaranteed way of getting them asleep and to be honest if it had continued to be, I would have carried on with it.

I decided to tackle naps first and flipped the order of things around so that I gave a feed upon waking, so as to remove feeding as far from sleeping as possible. Then through a bit of trial and error we worked out a new 'going to sleep' routine. This did involve a bit of crying but I chose not to leave them alone but sat beside the crib stroking DC's head until they settled. It took Fri-Sun to sort out the naps (I deliberately started on Friday so that DH and I could tackle it together over the weekend, and we took it in turns to do each nap - this had the side benefit that both DH and I were equally able to put the baby to sleep rather that it all being on me as it had been when feeding to sleep).

Once day naps were unlinked from feeding, DC seemed able to translate this to night time. I was still feeding to almost sleep (as the only reason to be awake at night was to feed) but they could settle themselves. This then meant that any additional wake ups (at 5 months, I felt 2 feeds per night at roughly 12am and 4am was sufficient and I didn't want to end up with the baby taking the majority of their feeds at night) could be dealt with by the same process as nap times.

It wasn't a smooth trajectory of improvement, but if I measured progress over a week or 2, rather than night by night, it was clear things were working.

There is such a spectrum of choices as to how to help babies to self settle and I think you need to feel comfortable with whatever approach you choose so that you can be absolutely consistent with it, I do think this helps probably most of all. There is no point in aiming for a hardline approach if you end up caving 2/3rds of the time. Equally, once you're confident about what your baby is capable of in terms of gaps between feeds at night, there's not much point in continuing to offer more (unless of course you are happy to do so as they will stop in their own time).

Good luck!

At 9 mo asleep deprivation was starting to kick in. 5/6 times a night a quick bf back to sleep. Sent dh in to settle him and he slept through on the third night!

Try the Gentle Sleep thing - gently break the seal and withdraw your nipple as the baby drifts off. They will startle a bit and go for it again, let them. Repeat. Repeat. At some point they'll just not bother and stay asleep instead of looking for the nipple again. You'll break the pattern of going to sleep with a nipple in the mouth.

We did this, waited about ten mins until DD was hopefully soundly asleep, then transferred to cot - often took two or three times for her not to wake on transfer though. In the end we did gradual retreat sleep training once she went in her own room and feeding to sleep on our bed before transferring was no longer an option.

I fed to sleep until he was 2 and a bit, gave up bf at 2.5.
but he was in his own room in own, single bed with a Lindam bed side. I fed him to sleep and then left him, It mostly worked, sometimes I needed to go in again at 3-ish(and then I would just sleep there till morning). We co-slept in our bed till they were 18mo.
BUT I am a huge advocate for co sleeping and it really worked for us, (and I love it!) I may not be for you or even work for you!
Always do what woks for you xxxx

Thanks everyone for your replies, I have some ideas to go on.

Guess I need to find a method and stick to it. With my dh working away alot and a toddler I need to try figure out which is the kindest on us all without disturbing the toddler.

That's interesting @Perch I know you said sometimes you fed at 3ish but when did you lo start to sleep through and did you have to do anything to stop the feed to sleep?

I co-slept with dd2 until 7 months and while she was next to me and grazing all night she’d sleep well. When I tried moving into her own room I couldn’t settle her and when she did sleep she would wake at every cycle. I tried gentle sleep training which did not work, it seemed to make her worse and in the end I did controlled crying which was bloody awful but she now settles at 7 by herself wakes once around 2, settles back and then I give her a quick feed around 4 and she will sleep til 7.30 after.

Hi @Beansprout30 thanks for replying.
Was it at 7 months you did CC.
I'm really reluctant to do CC, I can't bare crying but also my toddler will be disturbed by it.

Daddy put him to sleep for a while, and that broke the breast/sleep connection.

But he didn’t sleep through properly until about 18 months, so I’m afraid the two are not necessarily related... always woke up once or twice in the night, and even now he sometimes wakes briefly at 4:30.

Honestly the no cry sleep solution is a brilliant book.

It might be that he's just not ready yet to go to sleep without the breast and you can try again in a few weeks/months and he will be. But if there is a way to change it sooner without crying methods it will be in there.

It might be difficult to establish a Daddy bedtime if your husband is away a lot.

I can see your frustration with the feed and sleep times not matching up - I wonder if something which helps you time the feeds to sleep times (or fairly far away from them) would help? I've been using Huckleberry which is a sleep app this time. You log your baby's sleep and it predicts when they will be tired (and is pretty much spot on). It's just told me my baby will next be tired between 9 and 9.30 and I've just fed him (at 8.30), thinking nah that can't be right, he seems sleepy now, and he's got bored of the feed and is now wide awake shrieking with happiness in his jumperoo! Whereas when I feed him within about 10 minutes of the time the app suggests he falls asleep easily.

You probably are in leap 5 territory which most of my group is finding tough (DS2 only seems to want to sleep IN the bed with me at the moment) but it seems once you come out of it sleep seems to improve. And there seems to be no difference between breastfeeders and FF or whether the baby is fed to sleep or not.

To my mind - especially if you're on your own a lot - feeding to sleep works and it's easy and quick, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it as being a problem, unless of course it's not working, but even then, I'd not necessarily look to cut it out as other methods are likely to take as long unless you get to a point you can put him down and leave him.

I think I might do this for now:

• Try to sync feed and sleep times
• Start an earlier bedtime e.g. after your toddler's, but allow 90 minutes for falling asleep (helps avoid frustration)
• Add some kind of sleep cue like white noise, dimmed/red lighting, lullaby, soothing toy/muslin (maybe tuck into your bra)
• When he feeds at bedtime but doesn't sleep put him down next to you and do something non obtrusive nearby like reading, MN on phone, etc.
• If he's happy just leave him to it even if he seems very awake.
• If he becomes unsettled try a ssssh and reassuring hand and/or white noise, or lullaby song/toy (we use a free app called Baby Sleep)
• If he gets more cross/starts to cry then pick him up and feed him

Repeat until asleep.

Once that is established as the routine, if you want to stop feeding to sleep then you just keep doing this but every time you feed, try to take your nipple out of his mouth just as he is falling asleep until he gets so tired he falls asleep without it. Then you will regularly get to a state where he feeds, and falls asleep in your arms. You can transition that into him feeding and then being put down to sleep.

Honestly stop worrying so much, mines stopped and started feeding to sleep if their own accord, well before a year. The days are long but the years are short. Just enjoy it.

Thanks everyone. @BertieBotts your post is fab. Everyones input had been a great help.
I wouldn't mind continuing feeding to sleep it it always worked. Last night he woke 5times which wouldn't be so bad if one of them wasn't for 1.5hrs. My concern is some nights he wil sleep for 10—20mins after coming off boob before waking and wanting back in. It's like he goes to suck and I'm not there so wakes and cries and it resets the whole settling again. I try to wait 20-30mins after he asleep and I think he's sound and put him down. So for me I could be sat up for hours. Which is exhausting when I have a 1yo to look after.

We have some better nights where he feeds, and goes down and doesnt wake again for 1.5-2hr where he feeds and goes straight back down and I can put down for day times naps and bad nights where he constantly wakes when taken off boob and its 5am I've not been to sleep yet and my toddler is goin to wake for the day in the next couple of hours. Then day naps in my arms attached to my boob like right now.
Guess if I had nothing else to worry about itd be easier but being on my own alot trying to meet the needs of my older child it's breaking me.

I don't mind him waking at night for feeds its just the settling back to sleep and relying so much on my boob. When dh is home I'd like a break for him to put baby to bed or at least for baby to go down and let me spent time with dh.

@BertieBotts do you recommend the huckleberry app? Ive seen it but been a bit reluctant to subscribe to a monthly charge for it.

Yes you can use it for free, it still predicts sleep times, that's how I use it. You only pay if you want more tailored sleep advice - and comparing to the cost of sleep books and sleep consultants, actually, I don't think it's a bad price. But I'm not planning to pay for it. I am OK for sleep at the moment. BTW the questionnaire is not worth filling in unless you want the paid advice. Just fill in the sweet spot settings (that's the nap predictor). If you don't know how many naps he has just guess.

I did end up having to feed DS2 to sleep earlier but then after 10 mins I put him down and he stayed for 1 hour! I didn't expect that at all. But I think it worked because the time was right with the app. Now he's fallen asleep on me and I'm letting him because sometimes it's nice to have them sleep on you. But DS1 is older and at school so I have that freedom.

I’ve not had chance to read all replies but yes I did cc at seven months because I felt I had no other option. I had tried gentle sleep training and it did not work, was happy to continue to co sleep but I needed some time in the evenings and I couldn’t get 30 mins without her waking screaming for boob. I’m on my own in the week as DH works away and I have a toddler too so can’t be completely knackered for her. I did cc with dd1 at 14 months and I always said I wouldn’t do it any earlier but like I say, no other option with dd2! It took about a week to work and it wasn’t nice but she sleeps so much better now. She settled almost straight away on her own and usually sleeps till 2am, has a little cry and settles back, wakes again at four when I do give her a quick feed then she goes back till 7.30 ish. She’s happy for it too as she’s well rested and not overtired in the day. It’s improved naps too

@BertieBotta I never realised there was the option to use without paying I thought it was all pay for. I've just downloaded the app and put that naps she's just had in and it's predicting the sweetspot well after she'll have had a meltdown for sleep. Does it change if baby sleeps earlier or is it a set time for baby age.

@Beansprout30 your situation is similar to mines, on your own alot with baby and toddler. It's tough going isn't it with no rest for days at a time and that's if you don't end up super busy when dh is home.
Might be more open minded to CC when he's a bit older if other methods don't work.

Yes just add in the time she naps regardless of what it's predicting, it's supposed to get more accurate over time.