This is the year I deal with my dd’s refusal to do things. Help please!

[Bathbombs]

Dd is 9. We’ve been dealing with awkward behaviour for a few years now so it’s pretty embedded.

E.g-yesterday dd said she’d like to go for a walk with some friends tomorrow. I asked friends if they’d like to, they said yes and suggested a new place to go.
Told dd where they’d suggested and she said ‘I’m not going’.
This is her immediate response to suggestions of anything new or that she hasn’t specifically requested herself.

What follows tends to be a series of negotiations with her eventually ending up doing as originally planned but with some added incentive (e.g stop at gift shop etc.) and everyone feels like they’re waking on eggshells with her.

I realise it’s probably her being anxious but it’s a really unhelpful response and behaviour. I feel like she gets her own way all the time (even though she doesn’t because we end up going where we’ve said)

She has form for refusing to leave the house if she doesn’t want to go somewhere and crying/clinging on to me if she doesn’t want to do something (e.g new swimming lessons a few months ago)

Vast majority of the time she is absolutely fine once doing whatever it is-with swimming she was joining in perfectly as soon as I managed to get her in the pool albeit with some dirty looks in my direction for a few minutes.

I really need to get out of this pattern of her being so manipulative and help her with some alternative strategies.

She does get to chose things to do herself quite a lot so it’s not like she has no control over her life.

Bathbombs your DD has worked out which buttons to push to manipulate you. In short she is playing you like a violin. She knows there will be no sanctions for her poor behaviour.

she does get sanctioned. Regularly has tv bans, early bed times, less pocket money.
None of which bother her too much tbh

My first though was PDA too. Maybe have a read up as if it is PDA you will need to adopt completely different parenting strategies as the usual approaches (sanctions/consequences etc) wont work.

If you do feel it’s PDA if you post on the SN board you will get some good techniques to manage it.

My ds has asd and he's like this.

New place = anxiety.

The problem you have is not knowing what cane first as she goes with "the promise of something".

This was one of the questions I was asked by clinical psychologist when ds had his assessment. My ds wouldn't in fact be persuaded by reward.

I'd try wording it differently. If she asks to go for a walk agree and then before inviting others look at 2-4 places you could go.
Maybe a known place and a new place to start off with. Discuss all you can do there and get dd to communicate with you about the different things.

Agree a destination. Then invite people to join you at that place.
No incentives or rewards.

Build up then. Look at 1 known place and 2 new places.

Then build up to 2 new places.

Camhs told me that anxious children need about 20 positive experiences to 1 negative one. So she needs lots of positive days out (this is the day out not positive as rewards for going) including positive experiences of new places to build up her resilience.

2 years ago my ds was suicidal and could t do anything he knew let alone new.
Now we do new things all the time. It's emotionally exhausting for him but he can cope with it.

Any other signs of puberty? That was my first thought as puberty can really trigger anxiety.

With the walk, I don’t really understand what happened. Did you just agree to going to the new place without consulting DD? Isn’t that a bit harsh - to transpose an activity to a different place, without discussion, and then tell her she has to do it as it was her idea (which it wasn’t, really, when the new location was brought into it).

Wouldn’t it be better to consult DD about the location as well if you know she’s prone to anxiety?

It might be worth looking at what Tony Attwood has written about girls with ASD and see if anything else stands out.

PLEASE let’s stop non-qualified posters diagnosing children over the internet with conditions that aren’t recognised in most parts of the UK.

OP, what happens when you simply talk to her about this? What reason does she give? Almost all behaviour is communication so when she displays this behaviour, try to work out what it is that she is trying to communicate.

We’ve had these struggles with dd2.
She would sabotage lots of days out before we even left the house through her behaviour, so even if we did make her go with us we were so stressed and worn out that the “fun” day out was not enjoyable anyway. It took us ages to work out that she was so anxious about new experiences that she would rather be told off than experience them. It also took us ages to have more patience with her about this and then we had to work out the difference between her actually being anxious and just being controlling for the sake of it, as she can be quite willful.

Sometimes her fears are extreme, but she is much better at telling us what they are and we are better at asking her about them. For example the other day we planned a day out by train. Her behaviour plummetted. It turned out when discussed that she was worried about the train being blown up. She begged us not to make her go on the train. With plenty of reassurance we made her go. It makes us sound very harsh, but the main thing I have learned about anxiety is that avoidance never works. She did it and was very proud of herself.

I would suggest discussing with her why she does not want to do things. You might be surprised at her responses. We’ve had things like not wanting to go into a restaurant in case the roof blows off!! We would not have guessed that!!

My 14yo DD gets nervous about new things. She tends to go into fight or flight - lots of 'I'm not doing it, you can't make me' or just withdrawing into herself.

We have found the following help, depending on the situation:

• reassurance
• talking through 'what's the worst that can happen'
• giving opt outs part way through
• occasional bribery
• consequences (if we don't do X then you won't get to do Y)

9 times out of 10 she enjoys things once there.

Other times these days it is 14yo teenage apathy, so we do have to distinguish between the two.

(We have the same with homework sometimes too. When she doesn't feel confident with how to do whatever has been asked of her versus wants to procrastinate.)

I bet it's still about toilets... More than you think. With DD, no matter what it seems to be about, it's usually about dogs or her sister being travel sick.

It helps us to say it out loud. "Yes, your sister could throw up, but we're only driving for twenty minutes, and if she feels ill, we'll pull over." DD rolls her eyes and complains, but does usually feel better when we confront it head on. I don't think there's actually much 'wrong' with DD - she's just a worrier.

Oh yes homework —a real flashpoint here too.

We also find talking about how she’ll feel after the event. E.g. imagine how proud you’ll feel of yourself after doing x, y or z
Or you might feel disappointed that your anxiety stopped you having that fun experience - appealing to her desire to want to be in control rather than controlled.

Op if your looking up PDA take a look at ODD my dd had traits of odd and sounds a little like your dd.

How is she at school OP?
My DD managed to hold it together at school, but would then “explode” when she got home after all the effort of containing her anxiety.

Lots of helpful replies here thank you.
Batteries-yes it wasn’t the best way to deal with it. She hadn’t suggested a location so I agreed with friend without consulting. Wouldn’t usually tbh but that’s what I mean by walking on eggshells!
She’s come round to the idea now anyway once I told her we’d been nearby before and talked about some of the nice things there. No bribes required!

I will try talking to her more about it. I tend to avoid discussing it because I don’t want to give the behaviour any more attention. If we do she’s never got further than ‘it’s scary’ or ‘it’s horrible’. She’s quite articulate usually but she seems to shut down in these situations.

I think sometimes the “shutdown” comes from the fact that they realise that their fears might be perceived as ridiculous. We had to really be open to everything that was said e.g roof blowing off, without a kind of “don’t be silly” response and a more measured - the roof will have been tested etc. It is harder than it seems to be measured when a child has pushed your buttons all morning to attempt to avoid the event!!

Fine at school. Quiet, playful, not especially hard working but enjoys learning. Middle of the road academically. Usual girl friendship issues.
We did have a battle to get her there every day a couple of years ago (toilets) but that seems to have resolved now. Still anxious about school trips but will go.

OP, our DS nearly 9 is the same. However he also makes himself sick, refuses to even get in the car/leave the car if he won't go. We have some terrible tantrums, days out ruined.

We were going to a family lunch a few months ago, we had to force him in the car, child locks on. He climbed into the front and tried to open the car doors as we were moving.

We often arrive at places sweaty and upset from carrying a 4stone child into the car/into the appointment/shop etc.

For the PP's who say "parent your child" I would like to know how exactly they suggest I get him to leave the house otherwise. Sanctions don't work. Take away lego? Never mind, I will draw. Take away tv? Never mind, I can find a million other things to do. (Also, that penalises his older sister who already loses out to his behaviour in so many ways - as we would have to remove plugs to stop him putting it back on).

He is often so upset he can't tell us what is wrong. Sometimes I think we are being played - and then he throws up.

OP we have appointment with a Psych in January (through private healthcare), so it may be worth having a look at too.

I read your post and you could have been talking about our DS with added sick for us! We however have told everyone we know so there is no embarrassment and sometimes friends can take my daughter if DS is having a bad day. We have had nothing but support and kind words from friends, school etc. It might help you to manage it if you share with people. I am sure some people judge us secretly, but I don't really care I just want my DS to feel normal again.

Good luck.

BTW, we are certain that DS is like he is from being constantly worried about being sick. The idea of it makes him be sick or have a dodgy tummy.

Today I have to take my daughter to the dentist - DS didn't eat all morning at the thought of the smell in the dentist waiting room. He will stand outside shaking and gagging while I take her inside for the appointment.

Action-that sounds v difficult with the added sick-it makes it a self fulfilling prophecy doesn’t it.
I’ve read some pda things and although she does fit many of the criteria I feel uncomfortable with pathologising what is most probably learned behaviour resulting from anxiety and poor parenting (I’m talkig about myself here-not any other posters!)

Sounds exactly like my son you could literally be describing him 🙀.
He has ADHD.