Anyone with an almost 4 year old boy- normal or does this imply an issue or condition?

[Ilikeviognier]

Looking for advice on this as worried our almost 4 year old DS has an issue of some sort.

He is 4 in 3 weeks. He has a brother who is 16 months younger than him, so 2.5.

Main issue seems to be that he just can’t listen- always being told off for being naughty, constantly wants to fight little brother- he just wont leave him alone in fact. We barely get a single second of peace when they are both at home because of this.

If he does something really silly and gets into real trouble for it, its like it goes straight over his head, and within 5 minutes he can be trying to do it again. We can literally spend what seems like forever telling him off. It’s relentless. It’s Almost like he can’t connect the dots in his head or something, and realise that he will get into trouble when repeating the behaviour.

Other main issue is lack of attention span- won’t sit still; needs constant attention and doesn’t really seem able to play or entertain himself.

This has all been going on for a while - have been waiting for it to improve, and it goes up and down a bit, but general trend is the same.

Does this sound like we need to get him assessed for something like autism? Or is he just naughty? As we re starting to wonder if there is an underlying issue here that we don’t know about and need to get checked out?

Any experience?

Does he go to nursery? If yes then speak to the staff and she if they have concerns.

Yes he does- both nursery and pre school. That’s a good idea. They’ve not said that they think there’s an issue. Would they say do you think or shall I expressly ask them?

Have you tried giving him loads of attention when he is behaving? Sounds a bit like he may be misbehaving to get attention, even if it is negative attention.

On its own, I wouldn’t necessarily say it is autism, but it’s hard to say from only two things on an internet post. It sounds a bit like being little still, particularly the attention span. (I work with severely autistic children btw).

We had similar at a similar age. It was so frustrating and I ended up reading a lot of behaviour tips for boys type books. Did a star chart for a while and it really helped. Have you looked at anything like that?

He needs to experience advantages of being a big brother /the oldest dc.
Ime.

Santa- what do you mean?

Emma- are you saying it does sound like autism due to the not being still thing? If he’s watching tv or eating he can be still! Does that count?

My DS is 4, younger sibling of 2.5, exactly the same behaviour here! We got a marble jar and a chart from amazon. He moves up or down the chart depending on behaviour. If he gets to the top, he gets a marble, if he gets to the 2nd from last bit he’s on time out and all the way to the bottom a marble is removed. I also give a marble for extra good behaviours at random. It’s working well!

I meant to say the chart works well as it’s very visual and the marbles, I felt, were easier than stickers as they are reusable and aren’t directly linked to a ‘task’ which most of the reward charts seemed to be

Thanks Lucky- yes it sounds like we need to try something similar. Thanks.

Should I hold off contacting the HV until I’ve tried this?

Honestly be sounds fairly normal. They can be terribly naughty at that age. They're old enough to know it's naughty but young enough to just not give a shit yet.

And all 4 Yr olds are hyperactive. And never ever shut up. And are noisy and wear you out. And never bloody leave you alone.

They're essentially terriers at that age. Yappy annoying demanding terriers.

I think it would be within the bounds of normal. Is he at school? If not at school, you could go and see the health visitor for advice.

Doesn’t sound like autism to me but I’ve only work with adults with autism, not kids.

Does he stay up later than db?
Get to choose a film?
Choose own outfit ?
Things the younger one can't do yet?
Give him a sense of responsibility - act his age really!!
Ds4 has a nephew 18 months younger, but a bit miffed about it tbh!! Bigging him up to be the bigger boy worked a treat!!

Sounds within the bounds of normal but could be adhd. Sounds similar to my son diagnosed age 10. In my experience GPS etc are reluctant to refer etc until at least 6 or 7 as most children will have bouts of being like this before 6.

It sounds like he is vying for attention and presumes you prefer his younger sibling. Can you give him jobs to make him feel important/useful? Setting the table, carrying the shopping in from the car (not the eggs ;) ) helping prepare tea (tipping pasta into empty pot, peeling a carrot etc). I think he just needs more constructive outlets for his energy and frustrations.

With what you’ve described alone, it doesn’t sound like autism to me. We have two kids with autism if that reassures you a bit.

Hope things improve a bit for you all soon, it’s tiring!

My 4yr old is the same. Naughty, not listening and hitting his older brother (11) . We have 4DC and he is the youngest by far! . He likes being busy too but is probably a little spoiled as he is the youngest and gets away with a lot. However he definitely is not autistic and does not have ADHD. He can be a loving boy who simply gets bored and wants to do things. Your DS has a young sibling who is likely to get more attention hence he could simply be escalating in his naughtiness to get your attention. You just need to do as others have said and get a star chart and focus on all his positive behaviour not what he does ‘wrong’. I would be reassured that the nursery have not raised any concerns but would have a chat with them about what’s going on at home.

My DS(11) is autistic, my DD(7) is neurotypical. The behaviour you are describing is within the normal range for a 3 or 4 year old, and it can take ages for them to learn "good" behaviour, you need to be patient, calm and very consistent in how you deal with it. But if he is still acting like this, without any improvement and despite all your efforts, in a year then it could be a sign of something else (not necessarily autism though). If he starts school and his behaviour is challenging then the school will likely flag it up with you. Seek help from nursery or health visitor if you feel overwhelmed.

My boys are like this, constantly 'playing together' which basically means wrestling one another. They're 3 and 5, so I hate to say it, that part of it is probably not going to get any better.

I'd say it's pretty normal behaviour. They do test and work out boundaries at this age. What consequences does he face for being naughty, other than just being told off?

Agree with @3out , sounds like he needs a task for his enthusiasm: chopping the fruit for breakfast, giving the cats dry food, opening the blinds etc, he needs a definite task.

Your DS's behaviour sounds totally normal and typical for that age. He just needs to vent it appropriately. Praise him for his good works (sharing , kindness, patience etc).

But don't forget that rough play is how older brothers teach younger siblings how they like to play.

The 'play' fighting! I'm in that stage as well. DC2 (2) isn't quite into play fighting, but apparently he has no choice.....

Thanks TeaAddict, I always worry I’m not conveying what I’d like to say and that I end up sounding (unintentionally) offensive

It could be ASD, it could be ADHD or he could be NT.

At nearly 4 though his behaviour sounds like it would be more in the realm of normal behaviour for his 2.5 year old brother, tbh. How was his behaviour compared to his brother’s at the same age?

I’d have a word with the HV. If there’s no diagnosis to be had, then no harm done. If there is, best to get him assessed and any issues dealt with and support he might need put in place as soon as you can.

For the record my son has ASD and is fidgety a lot but can sit still eg in front of a screen. It’s because it doesn’t cause sensory overload for him the way other environments can which then impacts his behaviour.

Thanks all. I’ll speak to HV anyway and see what they say but I just wanted to gauge a view.

4-7 is a very naughty age for many kids.

Can I ask what you give in the way of sanctions for negative behaviour?

Also, how often do you praise him for doing the right thing?