How can I help my friends who are frazzled with toddler

[givemushypeasachance]

My friends (married couple mum A and dad B) have a 2.5 year old, and have had some tough times in those past few years. A had terrible sickness during her pregnancy, combined with anxiety where for the first 20 weeks or so every little thing seemed to prompt fear she would miscarry - to the point of regularly saying she assumed she had lost the baby. She didn't, but I think that all meant she couldn't prepare for the baby coming in the way you might ideally hope to. Labour had a few sticky moments and she almost had to have an emergency c-section, then their son had a day or two in nicu due to inhaling of gunk. So not the smoothest of starts but A is a very devoted mum and seems to enjoy him, she finds a lot of joy in him. But she's also totally frazzled.

A stayed home for a year then worked 3 days a week, recently switched to 4 days. Their son is with a childminder those 4 days. Dad works full time but actively parents when he can - A is very much the "primary parent" though, and definitely in terms of decision making. I think that's not necessarily through lack of his trying, but it's become one of those situations where if he tries to do something independently then it quite often ends up being "wrong". There's also a degree of not enough communication, or miscommunication, meaning mistakes get made and wires are crossed e.g. using a full pack of mince to make dinner instead of saving some for another intended meal, or things not being packed for a day trip out, that sort of level. He could possibly step up a bit more but I think she’s reluctant to let him, six of one half a dozen of the other maybe.

A is permanently sleep deprived and has been since their son was born, which has got to be hellish. She breastfed and he slept in a pod by her bed, B slept in the spare room for the first 18 months. With the breastfeeding A always did bedtimes and waking up in the night, and that's seemingly continued as he wants her in the night. They're both involved in the bedtime routine of bath and story but she's the one who stays while he falls asleep. There was a period of particularly difficult bedtimes and B would listen on the monitor and after 20 minutes or so would go upstairs and offer to take over, but A would refuse. Understandably she'd be a stressed mess but equally B was upset listening to it all unable to help - and then being told literally to fuck off when he tried. I always endeavour to not take sides and don't blame her for not being in a great headspace with it all, but there seems to be an element of martyred behaviour. I’m not sure how to try to help with that, because she wants to do everything she can for their son but can’t seem to see that it’s coming at the expense of her physical and mental health.

Their son comes first to her in everything, which I understand, but it's sometimes to extreme. For example once he didn't want to have a bath and was crying at being put in the water, which she put down to some nappy rash, and she ended up climbing fully clothed into the bath with him so he could sit on her lap. And recently we were having lunch out and he was very upset at being put to sit in the high chair, wouldn't be consoled or distracted, so she decided to take him home - and left the cafe without her coat or wallet or phone, just upped and left, leaving me and B without explaining, and her lunch completely untouched.

I don’t have kids so I’m coming from a total outsider position with all this. I help them out when I can – I visit one evening a week and help with the bedtime routine, cook dinner and wash up. Even before kids their house was always on the cluttered side and that only got worse with all the clothes and toys and equipment, and they’re not the best at staying on top of clearing out the fridge or those sorts of chores so I try to give it a blitz once a week. But it’s not addressing the underlying stresses of the current arrangements. I think A would benefit from something along the lines of leaving B with sole charge of their son for a couple of hours at the weekend each week and taking a bit of time for herself. I don't know if she'd agree to that because she'd probably feel she "should" be with him whenever she can. Or maybe she could be delegating more of the decision making of day-to-day parenting life to B, and trusting him to do it. But that’s my view from being their unmarried no-kids friend who really has no experience to draw on – does anyone else have any advice?

I am following helplessly for ideas because I have a friend a bit like this. And I have two kids but my vast experience is not helping

She is not behaving normally and is making everyone more miserable than they need to be. If this was normal parenting nobody could ever have more than one child.

I would definitely try and get her out once a week like you have suggested - would you have some class or regular thing you could do together as she would probably not go if it was just her? Otherwise you could offer to babysit while her and B go out together? If she says she can't, ask her how long she things parents should hold off having their own lives? Does she think everyone stops going to the theatre/out for dinner/cinema etc for 3-4 years per child? Of course not, but she needs to realise what she is doing.

Would she have someone come and give them expert advice about his sleep, that would help everything especially her mental health. She needs to be meeting other mums and seeing that their children have not come to harm by not getting their every demand met.

What would happen if B just took the child out every Saturday morning say - to swimming or music or something? If B could do that and then have a wee bit of time just hanging out with the child, she might get on top of the house or catch up on sleep or something. I think B should do that and if she doesn't like it should have to spell out exactly what her problem is and they should tackle it head on instead of giving in to vague anxieties and feelings. B should not enter into a long winded discussion about the activity before booking it, just say "I'd like to try x, it's good for them."

First of all, you're clearly coming from a good place. But you seem a little... enmeshed in the details of your friends life and parenting and I wonder whether for your own good you need to step back a bit and accept you can't fix this.

There's only two things I think you can do:

a) take the toddler to the park yourself for a few hours and let her sleep
b) recommend she gets some counselling. I think this goes beyond a "drop a casserole round" fix. She sounds like she has some anxiety or other deep seated issues going on that she needs proper help addressing.

Thanks PawsomePugFancier - I've been to the theatre with A once since their son was born, about a year or so in. That was the first evening she'd been away. We haven't done it again since! She's had a couple of days off work where he's still at the childminders, but at least once that was scuppered by him being ill so she had to keep him with her. I don't think she's left him overnight at all. Pre-child she used to do zumba and tap classes but I'm sure if I suggested that she'd say she was too tired. I may try bringing it up though...

I have made noises about offering to babysit but I'm not experienced with kids, I've tested the waters by being left in sole charge while she briefly pops out but I don't think they'd want to leave him with me for more than an hour or so. For the record they don't have family locally - several hours drive away in different directions there are grandmas, but I don't think they've been left with him for more than an hour or so at a time either. One visits every two months or so to help out, and every couple of months they go to stay at each for a weekend.

I think all weekend activities are done with the three of them. Other than maybe B taking him off to the park for half an hour or something like that. Which is nice for "family activities" points but it also means they're not making the most efficient use of free time in my book! I do think a bit of dividing and conquering would help them tackle some jobs and have a bit of a break, but again I think A feels she should spend all the time she can with him, especially now she's working four days.

And thanks ZackPizzazz (great Good Place name btw) yeah I know I'm too involved really. They are my family-esque best friends, we lived together at uni for a couple of years and live in the same city now, even pre-kids I'd go round to theirs for dinner and to hang out and watch TV once a week. So the emeshing is pretty well-established from before the small child appeared! I campaigned for them to get a dog instead, I'm sure it would have been much more straightforward...

I am a "fixer" and would love to try to solve everyone's problems. I know this isn't my life, it's not my relationship, it's not my child. I can only tackle the mini issues like cleaning their kitchen or cooking dinner and try to give them some head and breathing space for them to use on the other issues. Just if there's any additional pointers I can offer to help with that part I'd like to try.

I will try exploring the offering to babysit side of things some more. Largely I feel my time can be best used doing chores for them, but this underlying situation needs them to have a break and communicate with each other so a bit of child-free time may be best investment.

It sounds like a needs help.
Maybe she’s scared something will happen (going from scared to miscarry perhaps)
It sounds like she’s reacting to the situation without thinking, it’s not normal to get in the bath fully clothed or leave coat and wallet etc

My god, you're an angel for being so caring and involved.

She sounds anxious and depressed. She doesn't trust anyone else to look after the child, including B, and thinks it's all on her. Which would depress anyone.

I don't know what the answer is. The pressure needs to be relieved somehow, maybe through:

• counselling
• talking to other parents and realising they do things differently
• getting away and taking the leap of faith that B will cope
• the more of a break she can get, the more perspective she'll have that the way they live is unsustainable and unenjoyable

In all honesty, I'd worry about their relationship if it goes on like this for a long time, B will only be able to take walking on eggshells for so long. So what if he uses too much mince sometimes? That will be denting his confidence and stopping him from developing new skills.

Just to clarify there have been a few points where B has sole charge of their DS - when the childminders have holidays, there's been one or two days where A has needed to be at work so B has taken the day off and had him. And some days she's needed to travel with work and comes back later than pickup so B finishes earlier and has him from pickup for an hour or two till she gets home. So I think it's not a trust issue as much as she wants/feels she should be with him as much as possible?

The miscommunication and lack of communication seems like a mutual issue. She wants things done in a particular way and is the main decision maker, e.g. she does online shopping, so has particular meal ideas, but those aren't always communicated. So B either has to keep pestering her with questions or make his own decisions which may then be wrong. Or sometimes he's been told but forgets and then that causes a row. Writing out a menu for the week would help there but that takes time - I would argue it's a better investment of time, but that's by-the-by (I'm prone to nagging about their food/meal/waste issues!). Everything is compounded by being tired and stressed I know.

Thanks HoustonBess and IMUMYE - more good advice there. I definitely agree that earlier anxiety and fear may be playing a part here, as well as general parenting choices. I know she has wanted to follow the attachment parenting sort of approach - breastfeeding as long as possible, using a sling and a carrying harness thing not a buggy even now he's 2.5 when he gives up wanting to walk, very much being "present" with him as much as possible. But that is a very energy and emotionally demanding way to parent and she could do with sharing the load a bit.

Going to try to gently broaching these subjects with both of them.

Honestly? I think you're way to involved! I mean it with kindness.

Perhaps the best bet is to go and have some fun with your friends! Just you and her and also a family day out maybe and make it more regular. They sound like they need some bloody fun!

OP, you sound lovely, but WAY over involved in a situation you cannot resolve, because it is not your situation. Offer to babysit, make clear it is a real offer, and step back.

Clearly friend A has issues, but she and friend B need to resolve those issues themselves, while you focus on your own life.

Very difficult situation. Could you take the child out for a couple of hours sometimes followed by afternoon tea? A bit of normality would not go amiss here.

I can understand a lot of what A is doing. Spending months bf and being the only one to settle dc for bed is a hard routine to break for everyone. But everyone will benefit if B can also do m bedtime. Especially the dc. This will involve tears until everyone adapts.

A needs a regular activity outside the house. Coffee, a class, gym.

B needs to have a "thing" that him and the dc do together. Pool, park, softplay, ice cream etc. This will give A 2 times a week to herself.

I've frequently been accused of being a martyr but sometimes it's quicker and easier to do it yourself. Even when others want to help.

I don’t think there’s much you can actually do though OP apart from encouraging your friend to have some evenings out with you where dad puts him to bed. A regular class, or just dinner and drinks once a week? And maybe a weekend day out once a month or something? It sounds like she has anxiety and can’t let go, rather than the dad is not doing his bit.

You could take the child to the park for an hour if you think she needs some space. And also time for you to bond with the child as you obv have like an auntie relationship. Clearly your relationship is not like any friendships I have as I would be extremely patronized if a friend cleaned out my fridge for example. Maybe you could offer to babysit so they could go out for dinner

And yes dad needs to step up and take him out on a regular basis. Anything really, just dad son time and a break for her. An organized class might be best though as then it’s at a set time. Maybe football tots or swimming etc? DH and I both usually get a couple of hours child free each weekend. And we have 2 little ones so it’s more difficult to organize, but everyone needs down time

Babysit after the child is in bed that should say - I know bedtime is an issue! Or during the day so they can get lunch somewhere

OP, I think you are an amazing friend! We could all do with someone like you.

(No I won't give mushy peas a chance but each to their own :-).

You are clearly a very caring friend but I do worry that you're also feeding into the situation to your own detriment. Do you really need to be cooking and cleaning when you go round. This is someone with a toddler not a newborn and mum and dad need to be sorting out what works for them. I think you can offer to babysit whilst they go and spend time together or see if A will spend an evening a week out with you so that you two can do something together rather than you going to clean.