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Original poster

defiant/rude 9 yr old son

26 replies

bamboowarrior · 09/10/2018 01:43

Please help! my son is becoming a nightmare, daily incidents at his small school, mostly of answering back/ arguing with teachers or TAs, they have been quite mild on consequences, and only now have put a warning system in place, third warning equals time out at breaktime.

he is also challenging at home, we have used 1-2-3 warning system, leading to time out on step on in room - it is so exhausting and upsetting for us that he misbehavses and doesn't care about consequences/ gets so angry in the moment that he doesn't remember to stop arguing. it is tearing out family apart and ruining so many moments.

What would you do? when not angry/ rude he is very sweet, quite young emotionally, very bright, musical and sporty.

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AjasLipstick · 09/10/2018 01:51

What's going on in his broader life? Has anyone been unwell? Any upheaval of any kind?

How's he doing socially? Got friends?

Time out for a 9 year old seems a bit inappropriate if I"m going to be honest. It's something usually used on smaller children.

Original poster
bamboowarrior · 09/10/2018 02:02

no other upheavals no, what would you suggest instead of time out?

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Original poster
bamboowarrior · 09/10/2018 02:03

he has lots of friends at school

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BlankTimes · 09/10/2018 02:09

Ross Greene's book The Explosive Child and website Lives in the Balance have different coping strategies when all the usual consequences type don't work.

civicxx · 09/10/2018 02:12

My daughter is 8 & not long ago I posted s thread 'my 8 year old is an asshole' so I feel your pain. We are also plodding on still using 123 & time out system of bottom stair, not sure what else your meant to do with them as she sure as hell isnt spending 15 minutes punishment in her bedroom full of games/toys etc!! No advice but have my sympathy, the back chat & sarky comments in this house is unreal!

Original poster
bamboowarrior · 09/10/2018 02:19

feeling for you civicxx - it's so challenging and heartbreaking isn't it - yes I feel that about step vs room time out - so what do we do to garner respect, cooperation, care ??

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VanillaBeans · 09/10/2018 02:25

Could you use a reward system? It sounds like he gets lots of reaction and attention from his bad behaviour and also I agree a different punishment needs to be in place for when it’s needed - time out is for small children no?

I hope you find something that works for you soon, that sounds exhausting :(

Original poster
bamboowarrior · 09/10/2018 02:27

what reward system would you suggest vanilla beans? he gets monthly pocket money and sweet treats on Friday after school, maybe we could go to weekly pocket money if he has had a good week and Friday treats if no incidents at school?? what about a 6pm bedtime if any incidents at school that day?

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Original poster
bamboowarrior · 09/10/2018 02:37

could consequences of bad behaviour at school be loss of after school clubs/ sports clubs - he can then see immediate effect of bad behaviour?

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AjasLipstick · 09/10/2018 03:48

I wonder what's causing it though? Is he happy in his friendships and have there been any recent family upsets?

The consequences which I implement are immediate..."You can't play on your computer this evening" rather than stopping mine from attending a club or activity which might not be for a few days.

I think it's too disheartening for a child to have something like that happen days after the event.

Original poster
bamboowarrior · 09/10/2018 04:28

yes I agree - I am thinking no club if there has been an incident at school that day?

no recent major upsets atall, just a gradual decline of listening to authority/ caring about outcome/ enjoying negative attention/

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ParentsOfSummer · 09/10/2018 05:06

I agree with vanillabeans- yale university do a parenting course that I just finished and it turns out that punishments do almost nothing for long term behaviour change (short term it is)... It's up on coursera and there is financial aid if your finances are tight.

With timeout it turns out 5 minutes is as effective as it can get - 45 minutes isn't any better, nor is 5 hours.

They talk a lot about 'special praise' which leads to permanant change after roughly 2 weeks if you can catch the good behaviour 95% of the time. Basically you spot the good behaviour, throw your hands up in the air in joy say "great!" and explain for what... Ie "I asked you to do x and you didn't answer back" and follow it up with a high five or some other form of touch he's comfortable with.
Mistake most people make is following that up with a criticism like "why can't you do that all the time?" so keep it praise only and instantly after the good behaviour, otherwise it won't work.

You'll probably want to start giving choices for a while to limit his chances of defiance - do you want to clear the table or put the bins out? Put on your red or green jumper. It gives him control which most people appreciate and makes us more likely to comply.

There's a place for punishments but unless there is praise for Good behaviour acting out can be the only source of reward (kids love to push buttons). 2 time out sessions of 5 minutes is twice a effective as one 45 minute session.

Btw, never touch when you do punish him (you are likely to get hitting, and he didn't start it) and you don't have to be angry or shout for it to be effective. Get him to do the good behaviour as often as possible and give him a feel good factor everytime he does.

Also break his behaviour down and work on one tiny detail at a time (maybe he rolls his eyes). Baby steps.

He sounds like a really good kid, really wishing you the best with this!

NotANotMan · 09/10/2018 05:13

My 10 year old was a real pain in the arse throughout most of the last year. Slightly less so now. I think it's a developmental stage.
Time out is way inappropriate for a 9 year old. If mine was getting too rude or defiant I would send to his room, I get that there are toys in there but the goal is to calm down not to punish.
Punishments would be things like losing electronics time or no tv after school.

Happygolucky009 · 09/10/2018 05:17

My friend found this with her ds1, she banned him from Fortnite and found his behaviour improved significantly Flowers

AjasLipstick · 09/10/2018 06:54

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BastardGoDarkly · 09/10/2018 07:02

Op answered you twice Ajas ? Hmm

ParentsOfSummer · 09/10/2018 07:07

I can't think why you've ignored every single direct question that I have asked you OP. It's rather odd. And rude. When someone takes time to respond to your OP then it's usual to acknowledge them in some way even if what they say doesn't help you."

I actually read your questions as rhetorical and things to consider rather than direct questions. I doubt the lack of response meant anything - maybe she's typing up the response now or giving it some thought?!

LoadOfRubbish · 09/10/2018 07:19

I read your “I wonder...” question. As rhetorical Ajas but the OP answered you twice before you complained of her ignoring you! Are you saying she didn’t because she didn’t say your user name? Confused

LoadOfRubbish · 09/10/2018 07:21

In fact three if the OP’s replies are answering you Ajas. You owe the OP an apology for being so rude to her.

buttontin · 09/10/2018 07:34

Ajas you asked : What's going on in his broader life? Has anyone been unwell? Any upheaval of any kind?

How's he doing socially? Got friends?

OP immediately answered: “no other upheavals, no”

and

”he has lots of friends at school”

You then posted ”I wonder what's causing it though? Is he happy in his friendships and have there been any recent family upsets?”

And the OP replied ”no recent major upsets atall, just a gradual decline of listening to authority/ caring about outcome/ enjoying negative attention”

But then you said: ”I can't think why you've ignored every single direct question that I have asked you OP. It's rather odd. And rude. When someone takes time to respond to your OP then it's usual to acknowledge them in some way even if what they say doesn't help you.

And...

You seem to only respond to people whose posts you like and you've not answered any of the things...”

and went on to call her rude!

Hmm
buttontin · 09/10/2018 07:36

I agree Ajas you owe the OP an apology!

Original poster
bamboowarrior · 09/10/2018 09:21

thankyou so much for your comments of support 🙏 yes I too thought I had replied.

as you can see from the timings of my posts, I was up all night with this, another sleepless night, so apologies for any offence unintentionally caused i have just completed the morning routine and will reread the helpful information folk have posted . thanks again 🙏

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Cinnabunbun · 09/10/2018 09:45

I like Parentsofsummer's ideas. That course sounds amazing! In my experience (with younger children admittedly) threats, consequences aka time outs and punishments, just increased levels of resentment and defiance.

Would you be in a position to spend some extra quality time together to do some kind of love bomb style intervention? Maybe a night away just the 2 of you over half term to reconnect and build on your communication together? It might make space for him to feel more listened to and have his good choices validated and praised.

I've been reading "how to talk so kids listen and listen so kids talk" which has some good tips

Lynne1Cat · 09/10/2018 10:08

Instead of punishing him when he's bad, perhaps you could take things away - his favourite game/book/tv programme.

Praise him when he's behaving well. Tell him that if he's good all week/fortnight, you'll do something nice with him - a day out, cinema, or something you know he'd like

Original poster
bamboowarrior · 09/10/2018 10:33

thankyou - more amazing ideas x

Yes I like the love bombing idea, and also rewarding good behaviour with a very special lovely treat.

and I will reread the how to listen book! Now!

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