How to keep a baby awake

[Willow4987]

Hi! I’m trying to get into some sort of routine with my 8 week old little boy.

I know a full routine isn’t realistic but I want to at least have a bedtime routine as at the moment he won’t go down until 11-12pm every night...I want this to be closer to 7-8pm so that I have some sort of evening with my husband and the baby starts to understand bedtime

I’ve read some advice to say get them up at 7am every day and work on 2 hour awake time between each nap which then helps them to have enough awake time in the day so that they go to bed at a more normal time. I think this has been our issue as he’s asleep so much in the day that he has all his awake time in the evening.

So my question is, once he’s fed he goes to sleep but I need to keep him awake. How do I do this?

I’ve tried letting him sleep and then having awake time after naps before his feed but that isn’t working as he’s demand fed

He still is quite little for a 7pm bedtime and it will probably take a little while longer before you get there.

At that stage dd used to fall asleep with us and we would keep her in the living room with us asleep then when it was time for her 10-11pm feed we would bring her up to bed with us. When she was bigger and in more of a routine that became her dream feed bottle.

Try the Eat-Activity-Sleep routine during the day. At this age it doesn't take a huge amount to stimulate them so you dont need to go overboard but any toys that you have that they might respond to. DD used to love being tickled with a feather, tummy time, playing on her baby gym thing- that sort of thing.

Thanks smurfy. Maybe I’m just hoping for too much too soon. It’s just a lot of my NCT group have their babies asleep around 8 so I wondered what I was doing wrong.

We’ve got toys for him and when he’s awake he’s really happy and engaged. But as soon as he’s had a feed he’s asleep and I can’t wake him at all. I’ve tried the EASY routine but again kept failing as he just won’t stay awake after a feed

In my experience, you simply can’t force a little baby to stay awake. I know the Baby Whisperer advocates feed/play/sleep but this isn’t based on any evidence at all. If you’re Bfing, the Baby Whisperer is on the Kellymom list of book to avoid. Not sure if this is the book you’ve been reading though. The parenting books that I find the best are ones written by parents and are evidence based. You’d be surprised how many parenting books are neither

My advice would be to get him up at 7am if that’s a realistic time for you, try to aim for 12 hours until bedtime to 7am till 7pm or 8am till 8pm, whatever suits you.

Get him changed and outside. A good blast of daylight will help to get his circadian rhythm sorted. Feed if he needs it or just show him some things in the garden for a few minutes. I’d aim to get him asleep an hour after he wakes the first time, don’t worry if he goes straight to sleep, it’ll come as he gets older. As long as he’s fed enough and is meeting his milestones, he’ll be fine.

I always tried to get out after the first nap, even if I had to wake them. We went to playgroups, swimming, music groups, sessions at the library. I found this helped with getting them used to the difference between day and night.

If you want a book that is evidence based and not prescriptive, try Baby Calming by Caroline Deacon.

Babies are meant to sleep after breastfeeding, especially once it gets to the evening and you produce more ‘sleepy’ hormones, so you might be fighting a losing battle there.

@jiltedjohnsjulie I’ve been reading a book called newborn sleep program which is written by 2 mums. It makes sense and says what you have above, aim for 7-7 or 8-8 or whatever works and get them up and about as soon as they wake up

In fairness we’re only on day 2 of trying so maybe i need to persevere with getting him up at a set time every day and the rest will fall into place?

I’m finding at the moment that he has his first feed, sleeps and then wakes half an hour later for more milk and then goes down for about another hour. Then wakes for another feed and a sleep. I just feel like I’m trapped in the mornings as he’s either asleep on me or feeding so really struggling to get him up and about

I think maybe your DS is still a little young to be getting into a routine. I never went with the whole " keep them awake " theory, I know if I was tired I would hate someone trying to enthusiastically "play" with me lol.

I think they find their own pattern ,when they are ready, yes obviously you can help with their routine as they grow but personally I wouldn't try to force anything yet.

I wouldn't believe half of what other mums say at these classes, your baby is an individual, his own person and will do things his own way. Just smile and nod at the "8 o clockers", if you were a fly on that wall it may be a very different story.

Sorry just realised I’ve misread your OP - he’s awake not asleep in the evening!
Honestly I wouldn’t be too worried about routine when he’s still so little, he’s probably only just sorting out night from day. They are only this small for a short time so enjoy evenings with all of you together - I’m back at work and we only get to spend about 2 hours with my LO in the evening.

@creatureofthenight i thought this too! Which is why I don’t understand why every routine I read says they should eat and then be awake before a sleep! It just doesn’t make sense to me

@Willow, there really isn’t any evidence for Eat play Sleep or if there’s is, I’m yet to see it. If anyone is selling you this theory is honestly robbing you.

8 till 8 is just something to aim for. I never woke my first but my 2nd just naturally fell into it. I didn’t put either in bed I’m a room on there own at this age though, they hpjust spent their evenings asleep on us, feeding or in the crib if we were very lucky.

It’s such a short time in their lives and it will get better. Both of mine fell into their own routines without any prodding from me.

If you do want to go out in the morning though, I’d feed him and stick him in the sling, car or Pram and just go. If he wants a sleep, he can sleep there and the daylight really will help.

Try not to worry too much about your NCT group either. Some may be asleep by 8pm but that will be the minority and could just be a fluke rather than a regular thing. People often lie too, have a read of this

They don't tend to fall into a "going down at 7/8pm" routine until 12 weeks at the earliest. That's when their circadian rhythm starts to establish itself. In the early days they often need to cluster feed in the evening rather than sleep. And keeping a baby that tiny awake, even if it works, is only going to make them so overtired they can't settle properly later. Being overtired makes it harder for babies to go to sleep, not easier.

Bottom line, your baby is just plain too young for a routine like that. They do not have the biological capability to know day from night yet. I'd take your friends' comments with a pinch of salt, but even if it's true that really just means they have a baby who was inclined that way anyway.

Thanks everyone it’s made me feel better knowing that it’s just normal at this stage. Guess I’ll have to wait it out for a bit and encourage engagement in the day when he is awake

Glad you’re feeling a bit more reassured over this. It’s easy to get too hung up on what you think baby shoukd be doing that you can miss what they actually are doing. Can you get a nap in the morning while he feeds and dozes? Whoukd he sleep in bed with you if you both go back to bed for a bit?

Yeah this is what we’re currently doing but then I feel guilty for not getting up and about and getting on with chores. Think I need to just enjoy the time I’ve got with him

It sounds as though you may have a routine but a disparity between what you think you should be doing and what you think you shoukd be doing. Do exactly what suits you and your DS OP.

I’d still try to get him out in the daylight a couple of times, but do it at a time that suits you both.

Totally normal for babies to stay up until late as newborns! And since they need to sleep in the same room as you, it’s easier to just accept a late bedtime for them at this stage. Once they’re 3/4months you can start bringing bedtime forward. Until then, just go with the flow. Baby knows best what they need right now. Enjoy!

One thing that helps is being bright and noisy from the time you want your day to start, so night is quiet in your room.

First nap after 'morning' is in the living room with the curtains open etc, less effort to keep noise down.

I don't see the issue. Just feed him his last feed at 7pm, then put to bed. That's all i ever did, and just made sure i got her other 4 breastfeeds (at that age) done in the day so i knew she had had all of her milk.

@lazypuppy blimey!! At 8weeks mine was clusterferding all evening, feeding umpteen times throughout the day and night. Remind me to tap you up for your secrets if I ever have another.

@Acornacorn my baby never clusterfed. She would sometimes wake once in the night for a 10min feed and go back to sleep. Other than that she'd sleep 12 hours.

If OP's baby is falling aslerp after a feed, put him to bed and see how long he sleeps. Should give them a bit of time downstairs on their own, and then baby might start sleeping longer and longer.

I tried eat-activity-sleep with my first. Their tummies are too small and they're hungry again by the time they need to sleep. So he didn't nap. With my next I didn't bother, just fed pretty much on demand and she slept when she was ready and we were all a lot happier/chilled. IME you get a routine after they've weaned. Sorry OP.

I went with it for the first four months. At around 7 weeks my baby realised that staying up to 3.30am wasn’t the done thing. Then after that just used to stay downstairs and feed and nap until I went to bed (about 11-12). About 4 months was when tried to get him into a routine, bath etc but bedtime still 10.30 as no point getting him to sleep when he was waking constantly for b milk. Now at 9 months we do 9-9 and have got rid of bath every night and replaced with a book which he’s not actually interested in!

@Lazypuppy - you don’t see the issue because clearly you were blessed with a good sleeper! But all babies aren’t like that- my baby couldn’t last long without a breastfeed and was a cluster feeder. Putting him to bed at 7 just wouldn’t have worked.

My baby was/is mr average as far as sleep etc is concerned, but I do realise that there are many people who struggle with a baby who will never be put down or wakes every 1/2 hours. I wouldn’t ever suggest the solution was simple or that I don’t understand the problem just because my baby wasn’t like that. Surely you read the mymsnet threads and realise that many mums and their babies struggle with sleep?

@rubyroot yes my baby loves to sleep, but i have also been quite strict on getting her up to bed so me and my partner get periods of time to ourselves.

Also, even if a baby is waking every 1-2 hours, you can still put baby to bed at 7pm for example, or 8pm or 9pm, and have an hour for dinner or something with partner, then go up and feed when they wake up, and then put back to sleep straight after feed as its nightime, juet think of these feeds as nightime feeds.

Just because a baby won't sleep more than 1/2hrs doesn't mean you can't start a routine.

Lazy The thing is though, if you have a baby that is waking very frequently like that, it could be more inconvenient to try and settle them into bed in a room on their own, because that might take ages, then every time they wake they'd more likely be properly awake by the time you got to them, which would mean settling them again to sleep would take longer, and you'd be going back and forth all night etc.

OP I think 8 weeks is too young for a routine and the people that will tell you otherwise just got lucky with their babies. And I say this as someone who has a 16 week old who has always been a decent sleeper for her age - she slept at least a 4hr block for the first block of night-time sleep from being about 2 weeks old and apart from a fortnight of blip she has been sleeping roughly 7-9.30pm where we get her up for a nappy change and dreamfeed and then again 10.30-7.30ish with about two brief awakenings for her dummy and quick tummy pat that each take about 5 mins, from being around 8 weeks old. I'm sure most of that is luck. I EBF til 6 weeks then mixed fed til 12 weeks and been FF since then and the formula didn't make any difference to her sleep or anything either, I think it's mostly just genes, she takes after her dad who was and is a good sleeper (thank God as I'm awful!).

OP I would focus on trying little steps to make your life easier rather than focusing on a whole bedtime routine, iyswim. So if baby sleeps longer for a block in the evenings when on you or being held for example, and you'd like a few hours to yourself for dinner etc, could one of you just sit and hold baby while they sleep and eat dinner one-handed whilst the other makes dinner, or one of you carry baby in a carrier or sling (DD has loved her Baby Bjorn since birth and always sleeps in it)? As I said our DD has a nap in the evening but this is usually after we've already had our dinner as we tend to eat around 6pm which is a bit of a pain but I get hungry then haha, but we keep her downstairs with us and if generally keep her laying on one of us for that long nap because we often just watch telly in the evenings anyway or the other person does any jobs like sorting bottles out etc. They're only tiny once and I think you need to focus on small changes to make your life easier whilst you be realistic that it's unlikely you can suddenly put your little to bed at 7pm.

Thanks everyone! I’ve decided to just go with whatever routine he wants at the moment. After reflecting a bit I’ve realised he is kind of in one - it just starts later at night than other people’s and he sleeps in later in the morning. It just means that he’s awake all evening. I’ve started implementing some more alert awake time in the day, making sure he’s getting out in the fresh air and anything I can do to encourage his awareness of bedtime vs daytime in the hope he will start bringing his bedtime forward naturally and then will try to encourage this more actively when he’s 12-16 weeks

@lazypuppy as others have said, it’s not as simple as just putting him down when he’s asleep. Believe me I do make sure he sleeps in his bed rather than on me too much. The issue is that in the evening (and why he doesn’t go to bed at 7) is that no amount of feeding at that time of night will get him to go to sleep. Generally he’s awake solidly from 5/6pm until about 10/11pm - in this time he will have had 3 feeds!! If you’re doing something in the daytime that ensures your baby sleeps from 7pm please let me know as I’m willing to try anything to encourage an earlier bedtime